JRE MMA Show #155 with Max Holloway

This podcast features a conversation between Joe Rogan and Max Holloway, a professional mixed martial artist, delving into his life, career, and experiences in the UFC. The podcast covers a range of topics, including Holloway’s training methods, his thoughts on the BMF belt, his perspective on fighter legacies, and his unique style and mentality. Underlying themes explore the mental and physical toughness required in MMA, the importance of resilience in the face of setbacks, and the impact of a fighter’s mindset on their performance.

Major Topics

1. Adjusting to Jet Lag and Fighting at Different Times:
   • Holloway discusses the challenges of flying long distances to fight, particularly to places with a significantly different time zone, such as Abu Dhabi.
   • He describes the difficulty of adjusting his sleep schedule to fight at odd hours, like early mornings, and the impact it has on his training.
   • He notes the advantage fighters have when competing in their home country, due to familiarity with the time zone and environment.
   • Holloway brings up the UFC’s main event time in the US, often leading to fights in the UK occurring at 3 am, impacting the viewing experience for fans.
2. The “Written Off” Phase of Holloway’s Career:
   • Rogan acknowledges that some people had written off Holloway after a few losses, despite his young age.
   • Holloway dismisses this notion, highlighting that he was only 32 years old and still in his athletic prime.
   • He attributes the perception of him being old to his early entry into the UFC at age 20, leading people to assume he has been fighting for much longer.
   • He points out that he has been fighting the best in the world since he was 20 and consistently improving.
3. The Importance of Brain Health and Sparring:
   • Holloway emphasizes the importance of protecting his brain, especially after experiencing a scary knockout in the past.
   • He discusses the risks of sparring, particularly in light of increased awareness of concussions and their long-term effects.
   • He explains his cautious approach to sparring, opting to be smart and strategic in his training, rather than engaging in full-contact sparring.
   • Holloway notes that Justin Gaethje, his opponent, had to bring back sparring for their fight, showcasing the inherent danger involved.
4. Analyzing Holloway’s Fighting Style:
   • Rogan praises Holloway’s unique fighting style, characterized by constant movement, switching stances, and high volume strikes.
   • He highlights how Holloway’s ability to roll with shots and take the sting off punches makes him difficult to hit cleanly.
   • He describes how Holloway’s volume and angles made it challenging for Justin Gaethje to time his punches.
   • Rogan acknowledges that Gaethje’s knockout power makes him dangerous, but Holloway’s ability to avoid that one punch allowed him to control the fight.
5. The Controversial Knockdown in the Gaethje Fight:
   • Holloway and Rogan discuss the controversial moment where Gaethje dropped Holloway with a punch, but it was not counted as a knockdown.
   • Holloway insists that the punch was a legitimate knockdown, despite the referee’s decision, highlighting how he was visibly stunned and his legs gave way.
   • He points out that even ESPN acknowledged the knockdown in their post-fight analysis.
   • Holloway’s honesty about the incident and his acceptance of the referee’s decision showcases his integrity and humility.
6. Holloway’s Legacy and Future Goals:
   • Holloway discusses his desire to achieve legacy status in the sport and his unfinished business at featherweight.
   • He highlights the multiple options he has for future fights, including potential rematches with Dustin Poirier, Conor McGregor, or Alexander Volkanovsky.
   • He mentions the possibility of fighting for the lightweight title and even holding both featherweight and lightweight belts simultaneously.
   • Holloway’s ambitious goals and his willingness to take on any challenge demonstrate his unwavering determination to be the best.
7. The BMF Belt and Its Significance:
   • Holloway expresses his pride in winning the BMF belt, emphasizing its significance and the wild, unpredictable nature of the fights that determine it.
   • He acknowledges that the belt’s value goes beyond its physical appearance, highlighting the emotions and excitement it brings to fight cards.
   • Holloway’s victory over Justin Gaethje for the BMF belt is widely considered one of the greatest fights in UFC history, cementing its place in the sport.
   • He believes that his victory changed people’s perception of the belt, making it more than just a gimmick.
8. The “Greatest Knockout of All Time” Debate:
   • Rogan argues that Holloway’s knockout of Justin Gaethje is the greatest knockout of all time, citing its impact, the underdog story, and the dramatic timing of the finish.
   • Holloway humbly accepts the praise and notes that it was the perfect culmination of his strategy and execution.
   • The knockout went viral and garnered significant attention, further solidifying its place in MMA history.
   • The conversation highlights the subjective nature of judging knockout performances and the excitement that such moments bring to the sport.
9. The Importance of Mental Toughness and Mindset:
   • Holloway stresses the significance of mental toughness and mindset in MMA, arguing that it is crucial for overcoming setbacks and achieving success.
   • He points out that fighters often underestimate the importance of their mental state, making things harder for themselves.
   • Holloway highlights his ability to bounce back from losses quickly, demonstrating his resilience and his positive outlook on challenges.
   • He advises other fighters to focus on self-improvement and to avoid negativity, emphasizing the transformative power of a strong mindset.
10. Holloway’s Approach to Strength and Conditioning:
    • Holloway explains his strategic approach to strength and conditioning, prioritizing speed and endurance over simply gaining size and strength.
    • He believes that his speed was a key factor in his victory over Justin Gaethje, allowing him to outmaneuver and outland him.
    • He shares his training regimen, highlighting his dedication to maintaining his speed and conditioning while also building strength.
    • Holloway’s unique approach to training showcases his understanding of his body and his fighting style.
11. The Importance of Training Environment and Smaller Camps:
    • Holloway acknowledges the benefits of smaller training camps, where fighters can focus on their own development and avoid distractions.
    • He discusses the challenges of large gyms like ATT, where there’s a constant pressure to prove yourself and the potential for distractions.
    • Holloway values the tight-knit environment of his own camp, where his coaches and teammates support and push him.
    • He believes that a smaller, more focused environment can lead to greater individual growth and improvement.
12. The Controversial Jamal Hill vs. Paul Craig Knockout:
    • Holloway and Rogan discuss the controversial knockout of Paul Craig by Jamal Hill, where Hill appeared to take advantage of a moment of confusion after the referee stopped the fight for a low blow.
    • Holloway presents Hill’s perspective, acknowledging that he may not have been fully aware of the situation due to the referee’s position and the short time frame.
    • Rogan highlights the importance of staying alert and ready to fight at all times, even after a brief stoppage.
    • The discussion raises questions about the role of the referee in such situations and the importance of fighter awareness.
13. The Impact of Knockouts on Fighter Legacies:
    • Holloway and Rogan discuss the lasting impact of knockouts on fighter legacies, acknowledging how they can define a fighter’s career and overshadow other aspects of their performance.
    • They point out that even a single knockout loss can affect how people perceive a fighter’s skills and capabilities.
    • Holloway emphasizes that fans should focus on a fighter’s overall skillset and dedication rather than fixating on a single moment.
    • The conversation highlights the fickle nature of the sport and the importance of recognizing the entirety of a fighter’s journey.
14. The Role of Referees and Rules in MMA:
    • Holloway and Rogan discuss the complexities of refereeing in MMA, acknowledging that human error can sometimes lead to controversial decisions.
    • They debate the effectiveness of current rules, particularly those governing illegal strikes on the ground and against the cage.
    • Holloway suggests potential changes to the rules, such as allowing more techniques to be used on the ground, to create a more realistic and exciting fighting experience.
    • The discussion highlights the ongoing debate within MMA about the balance between safety and the freedom of fighters to use all their skills.
15. The Importance of Mental Preparation and Recovery:
    • Holloway emphasizes the importance of mental preparation for a fight, highlighting the intense anxiety and doubts that fighters experience before stepping into the octagon.
    • He notes the importance of finding ways to manage this anxiety and to flip the switch from nervousness to focus and determination.
    • Holloway stresses the significance of proper recovery after a fight, particularly for fighters who have suffered knockouts.
    • He shares the importance of listening to his body and taking adequate time off to ensure full recovery, both physically and mentally.
16. The Future of MMA and the Role of New Technologies:
    • Holloway and Rogan discuss the future of MMA, highlighting the evolving nature of the sport and the role of new technologies, such as hydration testing, in enhancing safety and fairness.
    • They debate the potential for rule changes and how they could impact the sport, such as allowing more ground techniques or eliminating weight cutting.
    • Holloway acknowledges the ongoing debate about the balance between traditional MMA and new technologies, emphasizing the need for continuous evolution and improvement.
    • The conversation highlights the importance of addressing safety concerns while ensuring the sport remains exciting and captivating for fans.
17. The Impact of Boxing on MMA and Vice Versa:
    • Holloway and Rogan discuss the relationship between boxing and MMA, acknowledging the similarities and differences between the two sports.
    • They highlight the impact of boxing on MMA, particularly in terms of striking techniques and strategies.
    • Holloway expresses his interest in boxing and his desire to compete in the sport, demonstrating the cross-over appeal between the two disciplines.
    • The conversation highlights the continuous exchange of knowledge and techniques between boxing and MMA, enriching both sports.
18. Analyzing Other High-Profile Fights and Fighters:
    • Holloway and Rogan dissect other high-profile fights, such as Devin Haney vs. Ryan Garcia, Anthony Joshua vs. Francis Ngannou, and Zhang Weili vs. Yan Xiaonan, providing their insights and analysis.
    • They highlight the unique skillsets and fighting styles of these fighters and discuss the potential for future matchups.
    • The conversation showcases their deep understanding of the sport and their ability to analyze fighters’ strengths and weaknesses.
    • The discussion highlights the diversity of fighting styles within MMA and the continuous emergence of new talent.

Memorable Quotes

1. “I love that guy. I love that guy. I love that guy. He’s the best.” – Max Holloway’s sincere admiration for DC.
2. “I don’t give a shit bro. The fight that he got before he fought in the UFC. Did you ever see that one? No. Is the most vicious left hook knockout of all time.” – Joe Rogan’s excitement describing a knockout.
3. “The human body it’s a you know the vulnerabilities of the human body are real despite the spirit of the man.” – Joe Rogan highlighting the vulnerability of the human body.
4. “I’m not even lying I’m in the back I’m in the back thing like fucking shit like what are we doing you told you told me this is the last time what they like now you on USC 300 be a fucking a million people go to buy this paper view what the hell are you doing.” – Max Holloway’s nervous feelings before the fight.
5. “I think it blinks what is that I had this thing going to oh so here’s my show the mighty mouse one because that was that’s incredible so here’s mighty mouse pretending to be so who though so they switch about scricklin it looks exactly like a holy it’s crazy.” – Joe Rogan’s amazement over Mighty Mouse’s fighting skills.