JRE #2096 – Josh Dubin & Sheldon Johnson

1-Feb-24

This podcast dives deep into the life of Sheldon Johnson, a man who spent 25 years in prison for a crime that resulted in two stitches for the victim. The conversation explores the complexities of the criminal justice system, its systemic racism, and the often-overlooked impacts of social conditions on individuals. Underlying themes weave through the conversation, exploring the transformative power of redemption, the challenges of reintegration, and the crucial need for equal opportunities.

Major Topics

1. Sheldon Johnson’s Sentence and the Criminal Justice System

• Sheldon Johnson served 25 years and five months for robbery and assault, resulting in two stitches for the victim.
• The sentence is described as “astounding” and “a miracle” by Josh Dubin, highlighting the disparity in sentencing for crimes of similar severity.
• The podcast emphasizes the systemic racism within the criminal justice system, where people of color often receive harsher sentences than white individuals for similar offenses.
• The conversation underscores the lack of oversight and individual case review within the criminal justice system, allowing for unjust sentences like Sheldon’s to occur.

2. Sheldon Johnson’s Upbringing and Social Conditions

• Sheldon Johnson grew up in a deaf household, experiencing unique challenges and navigating an identity crisis.
• He faced discrimination and bullying due to his mixed race background and was exposed to intergenerational incarceration.
• The conversation highlights the significant impact of social conditions on individuals, particularly in impoverished and crime-ridden communities.
• Sheldon’s upbringing exemplifies how social conditions can shape life choices and create a cycle of incarceration.

3. Sheldon Johnson’s Transformation in Prison

• Sheldon Johnson’s experience in prison demonstrates the transformative power of redemption.
• He navigated challenging environments, including solitary confinement, substance abuse, and gang involvement, ultimately choosing a path of education and personal growth.
• The conversation emphasizes the importance of access to education and rehabilitative programs within the prison system.
• Sheldon’s journey illustrates how individuals can rise above adversity and find purpose even in the most challenging circumstances.

4. The Role of Education and Reintegration

• Sheldon Johnson’s commitment to education, including earning a GED and a bachelor’s degree in prison, played a pivotal role in his transformation.
• The conversation highlights the effectiveness of educational programs in reducing recidivism and empowering individuals.
• The podcast explores the challenges of reintegration, including lack of access to resources, technological barriers, and societal stigma.
• Sheldon’s experience emphasizes the importance of providing comprehensive reintegration services to support formerly incarcerated individuals.

5. The Prison Industrial Complex and Privatized Prisons

• The podcast addresses the issue of the prison industrial complex and privatized prisons, highlighting the profit-driven motives behind mass incarceration.
• The conversation discusses the use of prison labor for various industries, including manufacturing of food products, and the exploitation of incarcerated individuals for financial gain.
• The podcast emphasizes the need for policy reform to dismantle the prison industrial complex and prioritize rehabilitation over punishment.
• The conversation underscores the ethical concerns surrounding the privatization of prisons and the potential for abuse.

6. The Importance of Empathy and Qualified Advocates

• The podcast emphasizes the importance of empathy and understanding in working with individuals impacted by the criminal justice system.
• Josh Dubin highlights the distinction between being “certified” (having knowledge) and “qualified” (having lived experience) in advocating for change.
• The conversation emphasizes the critical role of qualified advocates, particularly those with firsthand experience in the criminal justice system.
• The podcast underscores the value of lived experience in building genuine connections and fostering trust with individuals who have been incarcerated.

7. The Power of Community and Empowerment

• Sheldon Johnson’s work with the Queens Defenders, a public defender organization, showcases the transformative power of community and advocacy.
• The podcast highlights their youth emergent leadership program, which provides at-risk youth with mentorship, job readiness training, and alternative to incarceration opportunities.
• The conversation emphasizes the need for empowering individuals in underserved communities and providing access to resources and opportunities.
• The podcast underscores the importance of building community support systems to address systemic issues and break the cycle of incarceration.

8. The Role of Personal Responsibility and Second Chances

• Sheldon Johnson acknowledges his past actions and takes personal responsibility for his crimes.
• The podcast emphasizes the importance of rehabilitation and second chances for individuals who have made mistakes.
• The conversation highlights the need for a justice system that focuses on rehabilitation and reintegration, rather than solely on punishment.
• Sheldon’s journey demonstrates the transformative power of accepting responsibility and seeking redemption.

9. The Limits of the System and the Power of Individual Action

• The podcast underscores the limitations of the current criminal justice system and the need for systemic change.
• The conversation emphasizes the importance of individual action and collective effort in driving reform.
• The podcast encourages listeners to engage in their communities, volunteer their time, and advocate for justice.
• Sheldon and Josh Dubin offer practical advice on how individuals can make a difference in the fight for criminal justice reform.

10. The Opioid Crisis and Systemic Neglect

• The podcast touches upon the opioid crisis and the systemic neglect that often precedes it, particularly in marginalized communities.
• The conversation highlights how societal issues are often ignored until they impact privileged groups, as seen with the opioid crisis.
• The podcast emphasizes the need for proactive measures to address social problems, rather than waiting for them to escalate.
• Sheldon and Josh Dubin advocate for systemic solutions to address the root causes of addiction and crime.

11. The Power of Storytelling and Human Connection

• The podcast emphasizes the power of storytelling in raising awareness and fostering empathy.
• Sheldon Johnson’s personal story humanizes the impact of the criminal justice system and challenges common stereotypes.
• The conversation encourages listeners to engage with the stories of those impacted by injustice and recognize their humanity.
• The podcast underscores the importance of personal connection and understanding in driving social change.

12. The Importance of Critical Thinking and Challenging Groupthink

• The podcast encourages listeners to engage in critical thinking and challenge groupthink.
• The conversation highlights how repetition of certain narratives can lead to false assumptions and biases.
• The podcast encourages listeners to question the information they consume and engage in thoughtful discourse.
• Sheldon and Josh Dubin advocate for a more nuanced and compassionate approach to understanding complex societal issues.

13. The Importance of Advocacy and Seeking Justice

• The podcast emphasizes the importance of advocacy and seeking justice for individuals who have been wronged by the system.
• The conversation showcases the efforts of organizations like the Perlmutter Center for Legal Justice and the Queens Defenders in challenging unjust sentences and providing legal assistance.
• The podcast encourages listeners to support organizations working for justice and become advocates for change.
• Sheldon and Josh Dubin highlight the power of collective action in driving systemic change.

14. The Role of Celebrity and Philanthropy

• The podcast discusses the potential role of celebrities and philanthropists in supporting criminal justice reform.
• The conversation highlights Jay Z’s Sean Carter Foundation and its work with at-risk youth, showcasing the potential for impactful change.
• The podcast explores the importance of leveraging resources and platforms to address social issues.
• Sheldon and Josh Dubin discuss the potential for collaboration between celebrities, organizations, and individuals to drive meaningful change.

15. The Importance of Hope and Action

• The podcast concludes with a message of hope and a call to action for listeners.
• Sheldon and Josh Dubin emphasize that even small acts of kindness and advocacy can contribute to meaningful change.
• The conversation encourages listeners to engage in their communities, volunteer their time, and become agents of positive change.
• The podcast leaves listeners with a sense of empowerment and a belief that systemic change is possible through individual and collective action.

Memorable Quotes

• “I get a, I get this a lot. Why are you always bringing up race when you talk about the system? And, um, my, my response to that, if you don’t talk about how it impacts the system, even for people that have been found guilty, it’s like, it’s like having a conversation about President Biden and ignoring the very obvious apparent cognitive deficiencies he has.”
• “You want to make America great again? Make it so there’s less losers. Make it so that more people have a fucking chance. The idea that everyone starts on the same line, I mean I’m not talking about equality of outcome. That’s not possible. But equality of opportunity is possible.”
• “I’ve always known how to survive superficially but from from I just felt like at that point I was put into a place where instead of getting real therapy or real help I was just kind of put into a place and I was I was like I was malleable.”
• “This insane, inhumane sentence, actually saved Sheldon. But why aren’t there those programs that thought that implementation in his community to save him as a kid?”
• “You know, I look like I took a picture of a guy, homeless guy on the train station a couple of days ago and I posted it on my Instagram page and it just blows me away how. And I’m just gonna be straight out. I’m kind of, I have an issue with the whole immigration thing because I feel like, like he said, like Joe said earlier, like you have $70 million that you can give to a whole nother country yet, you know, you’re not addressing the issues right here at home, right now.”