JRE #2058 - Elliott West

7-Nov-23

Joe Rogan Experience Podcast Topics: #2058 – Elliott West

This podcast dives deep into the history of the American West with Elliott West, a historian, author, and professor specializing in the subject. It’s a fascinating journey through the era of expansion, filled with stories of Native American cultures, European encounters, and the profound ecological changes that shaped the land. Prepare for a discussion that challenges conventional narratives and highlights the complexities of a pivotal period in American history.

Major Topics & Underlying Themes:

1. Early European Encounters with Native Americans:

The story of Etienne Borgmont’s 1720s delegation of Native Americans from the Missouri River region to Paris, highlighting the cosmopolitanism and sophistication of Native American cultures long before the arrival of Lewis and Clark.
The significance of language barriers and how they were navigated, emphasizing the role of French fur traders and mountain men in establishing relationships with Native tribes.
The importance of recognizing that the American West was not a “virgin land” but a complex world of intermingling cultures, contradicting the myth of a pristine frontier.
The deep underlying theme of cultural exchange and the interconnectedness of history, demonstrating that our understanding of the past is often incomplete and simplistic.

2. The Devastating Impact of Disease:

The exploration of the role of diseases like smallpox in the decimation of Native American populations, underscoring its impact on the westward expansion.
The comparison of smallpox to COVID-19, highlighting the vulnerability of marginalized communities to outbreaks.
The debate surrounding the origin of syphilis and its possible connection to Columbus’s expeditions, revealing the unintended consequences of exploration.
The deeply unsettling theme of disease as a weapon of conquest, emphasizing the ethical complexities of historical narratives.

3. The “Big Wig” Origin Story:

The amusing yet disturbing origin of the phrase “big wig” linked to the spread of syphilis among French royalty, revealing a hidden history of fashion and disease.
The fascinating connection between hair loss, social status, and the rise of wig-making, showcasing the social impact of disease.
The enduring legacy of the phrase “big wig” in contemporary language, illustrating the lasting impact of historical events on culture.
The underlying theme of how historical events, even those seemingly trivial, can shape language and cultural norms.

4. The American Bison as a Commodity:

The narrative of the American bison’s decline from a flourishing population to near extinction, underscoring the consequences of overexploitation.
The role of Native Americans in the early stages of the bison trade, highlighting their involvement in the commodification of resources.
The discovery of bison hide’s use for industrial leather in the 1870s, emphasizing the shift from a primarily decorative trade to a large-scale industrial demand.
The underlying theme of ecological devastation driven by economic interests, demonstrating the fragility of ecosystems and the potential for human actions to disrupt balance.

5. The Younger Dryas Impact Theory:

The discussion of the Younger Dryas impact theory, proposing that a comet shower caused mass extinction 11,800 years ago.
The scientific evidence supporting the theory, including core samples and microdiamonds, indicating a major impact event.
The potential link between the impact theory and the extinction of North American megafauna, suggesting a catastrophic event that shaped the landscape.
The underlying theme of the ongoing debate surrounding extinction events, demonstrating the ongoing evolution of scientific understanding and the complexities of interpreting the past.

6. The Ghosts of Extinction:

The fascinating concept of “ghosts of extinction,” highlighting the impact of extinct predators on surviving species, such as the pronghorn antelope’s exceptional speed.
The example of Catalina Island’s overpopulation of deer, showcasing the consequences of removing predators from an ecosystem.
The comparison between the decline of Native American populations and the overpopulation of deer on Catalina Island, illustrating the broader implications of ecological imbalance.
The underlying theme of the delicate balance of ecosystems and the unintended consequences of human intervention.

7. The Uniqueness of Native American Cultures:

The recognition of the remarkable diversity of Native American cultures, highlighting their intricate understanding of the land and their sophisticated ways of life.
The exploration of Dunbar’s number and its application to Native American societies, emphasizing their unique forms of social organization and governance.
The discussion of the Battle of Little Bighorn, illustrating the ability of Native American tribes to unite in the face of a common threat.
The underlying theme of cultural resilience and the tragic loss of a distinct way of life, showcasing the importance of appreciating diverse cultures.

8. The Boarding School System and the Creation of “The Indian”:

The discussion of the boarding school system, highlighting its role in forcibly assimilating Native American children and erasing their cultural identities.
The irony of the boarding school system creating a pan-Indian identity, unintentionally fostering a sense of shared experience and resistance among Native Americans.
The historical context of the boarding school system, revealing the motivations and ideologies behind its implementation.
The underlying theme of cultural genocide and the struggle for identity, showcasing the lasting impact of colonization on indigenous communities.

9. The Motivations for Reservation Systems:

The exploration of the reasons behind the creation of reservation systems, highlighting the desire to control Native American populations and access valuable resources.
The analysis of the government’s agenda to transform Native American cultures, aiming for assimilation into American society.
The complex motivations of both those who advocated for reservations and those who resisted them, revealing the multifaceted nature of historical change.
The underlying theme of power dynamics and the struggle for control over land and resources.

10. The Uselessness of Gold:

The exploration of the paradoxical value of gold, questioning its practical use and highlighting its cultural significance.
The contrast between Native American perspectives on gold and those of European settlers, revealing divergent values and priorities.
The discussion of the California Gold Rush, revealing the economic and social upheaval caused by gold’s allure.
The underlying theme of human greed and the pursuit of wealth, showcasing the potential for desire to drive conflict and change.

11. The Second Conquest of California:

The analysis of the California Gold Rush as a “second conquest,” highlighting the displacement of Native American populations and the influx of diverse non-American populations.
The exploration of the Chilean War and the expulsion of Chilean miners from the gold fields, showcasing the conflict over resources and power.
The documented evidence of genocide against Native Americans during the gold rush, emphasizing the devastating impact of resource extraction on indigenous communities.
The underlying theme of the pursuit of wealth and the exploitation of marginalized populations, revealing the dark side of American expansion.

12. The Rise of the Horse Cultures:

The journey of the horse from its origins in North America to its reintroduction by Europeans and subsequent impact on Native American cultures.
The concept of the “horse-man,” highlighting the symbiotic relationship between humans and horses, forming a new type of being with extraordinary power and mobility.
The significance of the Comanche’s mastery of horsemanship, showcasing their adaptation to the Great Plains and their dominance over the region.
The underlying theme of cultural adaptation and the profound influence of technology on human societies, emphasizing how innovation can reshape power dynamics.

13. The “Grass Revolution” and the Transformation of the West:

The argument that the introduction of horses marked a “Grass Revolution,” transforming the Great Plains and shaping Native American societies.
The shift from hunting on foot to nomadic horse cultures, highlighting the profound impact of technology on ways of life.
The emergence of powerful Native American empires like the Comanche and Lakota, showcasing the dominance of horse cultures in the region.
The underlying theme of ecological change and the interconnectedness of human societies, emphasizing how a single innovation can trigger a cascade of effects.

14. The Legacy of the Horse Empires:

The exploration of the 5,000-year history of horse empires, from their origins in Ukraine to their influence across the world.
The comparison between the American horse cultures and those of previous empires, such as the Mongols and Arabs, emphasizing the enduring importance of this technology.
The significance of the Little Bighorn and the Comanche’s defeat as the end of an era, marking the demise of horse cultures on Earth.
The underlying theme of cultural evolution and the cyclical nature of power dynamics, showcasing how innovation and adaptation play out over long periods of time.

15. The Comanche Empire:

The exploration of the Comanche Empire’s sophisticated social, economic, and political structures, revealing the complexity of Native American governance.
The Comanche’s mastery of horse breeding and their use of horses as a form of currency, highlighting their innovative adaptation to a new world.
The Comanche’s long-lasting resistance to both Spanish and American forces, showcasing their military prowess and resilience.
The underlying theme of the rise and fall of empires, demonstrating the impermanence of power and the cyclical nature of history.

16. The Western Narrative in Film and Literature:

The analysis of the Western genre in film and literature, highlighting its often simplistic and romanticized portrayal of the American West.
The exploration of the need for the West to be a certain way in the American psyche, revealing the projection of societal ideals onto the frontier.
The discussion of the “whitewashing” of history in Western narratives, emphasizing the need for a more nuanced and accurate portrayal of the past.
The underlying theme of storytelling as a tool of social control and cultural shaping, showcasing the power of narratives to influence perspectives.

17. The Importance of Social History:

The emphasis on the importance of social history, focusing on the experiences of ordinary people during the westward expansion.
The exploration of personal narratives through letters, diaries, and journals, revealing the human side of historical events.
The challenge of avoiding simplistic moral messages in complex historical narratives, recognizing the nuanced nature of human motivations and actions.
The underlying theme of understanding the past through the lived experiences of individuals, emphasizing the importance of empathy and nuance in historical analysis.

18. The Rise of Corporate Ranching:

The revelation that ranching on the Great Plains was heavily corporatized, contradicting the popular image of independent cowboys.
The role of international investors in financing ranching empires, highlighting the global reach of the American West’s economic impact.
The connection between ranching, railroads, and the telegraph, showcasing the integration of new technologies in shaping the economic landscape.
The underlying theme of the modernization of the American West, demonstrating how the frontier became intertwined with industrialization and global markets.

19. The Continental Reckoning:

The significance of West’s book “Continental Reckoning” as a comprehensive historical account of the westward expansion.
The challenge of writing a book that encapsulates such a vast and complex period of history.
The importance of understanding the westward expansion as a continental story, recognizing its impact across the entire nation.
The underlying theme of historical reckoning, emphasizing the need for a critical and honest examination of the past to understand the present and shape the future.

5 Memorable Quotes:

“It was really a mixed world, a world that was far more complex, a former interesting, in my opinion, than the usual way that we remember it.” – West emphasizes the need to move beyond simplistic historical narratives, revealing the richness and complexity of the past.
“It’s not quite true that Indians had no immunity to it. Our immunity protected us when we went there.” – West delves into the nuances of disease transmission, highlighting the complexities of immunity and the impact of previous exposure.
“We’ve got to remember all kinds of changes up and down, up and down, long before the Europeans came.” – West reminds us that history is not linear but a series of interconnected events, challenging the idea of a singular narrative.
“You get rid of the wolves, the elk population booms.” – West highlights the delicate balance of ecosystems, demonstrating the interconnectedness of predator-prey relationships.
“The point of the title is it’s a continental story. Yes. It’s a story that has to be told and understood from coast to coast.” – West emphasizes the importance of understanding the westward expansion as a national story, recognizing its impact across the entire United States.

JRE #2058 – Elliott West