19-Apr-22
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This podcast explores the world of mixed martial arts with veteran fighter Jake Shields, diving into topics ranging from conspiracy theories to the evolution of the sport. Provocative and viral moments include discussions about steroid use in MMA, the “snake venom” documentary, and the chaotic brawl that erupted after Shields defeated Dan Henderson. Underlying themes delve into the physical and mental demands of fighting, the importance of community, and the often-unseen side of the industry.
Topics Discussed:
1. Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation:
- Joe Rogan and Jake Shields discuss a supposed Russian-made COVID-19 documentary that they believe is a conspiracy theory.
- The documentary claims that COVID-19 is a bioweapon and a mark of the beast, referencing the snake as a symbol of Satan.
- Shields and Rogan express concern that taking down such videos from platforms like YouTube may actually fuel conspiracies among those already inclined to believe them.
- They also touch on the suppression of information that contradicts the mainstream COVID-19 narrative, including the work of Alex Berenstein.
2. Steroid Use in MMA:
- Shields discusses the rampant steroid use in MMA during his early days in the sport, especially in the late 1990s.
- He acknowledges that it was difficult to resist the temptation, as many fighters were using performance-enhancing drugs.
- Shields believes that while steroid use has declined, it still persists in MMA, noting the physiques of some fighters.
- He speculates that teams with access to resources are able to stay ahead of testing regulations, potentially using undetectable substances and cycles.
3. Fighting in Different Organizations:
- Shields compares his experiences fighting in the UFC, PFL, and Strikeforce, highlighting the differences in pay, promotion, and attention.
- He notes that while some PFL events offer higher pay than the UFC, the promotion doesn’t generate the same level of hype and media coverage.
- He discusses the dilemma fighters face when considering whether to take a pay cut to fight in the UFC, the most prestigious organization, but potentially gain less recognition.
- Shields emphasizes the importance of fighting for the right reasons, recounting his decision to take a pay cut to fight Georges St-Pierre, a top-ranked fighter, even if it meant less financial reward.
4. The Golden Age of MMA:
- Shields reminisces about the early days of MMA, when rules were more lenient, and fights were often more brutal.
- He shares stories about bare-knuckle fights, headbutts, and groin strikes, all of which were legal in the early UFC events.
- He highlights the “anything goes” mentality of the sport during this period, with fighters often resorting to extreme techniques and tactics.
- Shields emphasizes how much the sport has evolved, both in terms of rules and athleticism, highlighting the dramatic changes from the early UFC to the modern MMA scene.
5. Chuck Liddell’s Impact:
- Shields reveals that Chuck Liddell, a legendary fighter, was a mentor and a big brother to him, introducing him to the world of MMA.
- He highlights Liddell’s fierce, “kill or be killed” fighting style, which inspired Shields to pursue a career in the sport.
- Shields praises Liddell’s influence on his journey, highlighting his role in inspiring Shields’ passion for fighting.
- He remembers Liddell’s early days in the sport when he fought in Vale Tudo events in Brazil, showcasing the brutality and intensity of those fights.
6. Vegetarianism and Ethical Considerations:
- Shields explains his vegetarian lifestyle, which he adopted due to ethical reasons and his aversion to factory farming.
- He describes the negative physical reactions he experiences when consuming meat, highlighting his body’s adaptation to a plant-based diet.
- Shields shares his perspective on the ethical considerations of hunting and killing animals, acknowledging the need for population control but ultimately choosing not to participate in the activity.
- He discusses the various protein sources he relies on as a vegetarian, including beans, and how his strength and athleticism demonstrate that a vegetarian diet can be sufficient for high-level performance.
7. The Mental and Physical Demands of MMA:
- Shields emphasizes the importance of intense focus and motivation for success in MMA, particularly the mental strength required to overcome adversity and pain.
- He highlights the challenge of maintaining that motivation, especially later in a fighter’s career, when injuries and financial pressures can take a toll.
- Shields acknowledges the difficulty of transitioning from a fighter’s mindset to a life outside the sport, particularly the challenges of finding a new identity and purpose.
- He shares his own experiences with this transition, the challenges he faced, and the mentors who helped him navigate the business world and find new passions.
8. The Importance of Community:
- Shields discusses the unique brotherhood forged among fighters and coaches, a bond built through shared experiences of pain, struggle, and triumph.
- He emphasizes the camaraderie and support system that exists within the MMA community, especially for those who have dedicated their lives to the sport.
- He highlights the importance of mentorship and guidance within the community, both for established fighters and those seeking to break into the sport.
- Shields discusses the emotional connection he feels with the fighters he coaches, comparing the intensity of cornering a fight to actually participating in the action.
9. The Evolution of MMA Judging:
- Shields expresses frustration with the inconsistency and subjectivity of MMA judging, highlighting the lack of clear criteria and the potential for bias.
- He cites examples of controversial decisions, such as the Aljamain Sterling vs. Petr Yan fight, where Yan was disqualified for an illegal knee, but Sterling retained the title.
- Shields questions the fairness of winning a title by disqualification, arguing that it should be earned through a clear victory over an opponent.
- He emphasizes the need for improved judging standards in MMA, both to ensure fairness and to maintain the integrity of the sport.
10. The Impact of Social Media and Polarization:
- Shields shares his own experience with social media, revealing how he eventually stepped away from Twitter due to the toxicity and polarization he encountered.
- He discusses the pressure to conform to certain viewpoints on social media, particularly during the Black Lives Matter movement and the COVID-19 pandemic.
- Shields critiques the “cancel culture” mentality that emerged on social media, where people were judged and ostracized for their beliefs and opinions.
- He emphasizes the importance of independent thought and the need to engage in respectful dialogue despite differing viewpoints.
11. The Impact of COVID-19 Lockdowns:
- Shields criticizes the extreme COVID-19 lockdowns that were implemented in San Francisco and other parts of the Pacific Northwest, highlighting the devastating impact on businesses and the middle class.
- He points out the disconnect between politicians making decisions and the real-world consequences those decisions have on people’s lives.
- Shields expresses concern about the long-term impact of lockdowns on children’s development, especially in areas where strict mask mandates were in place.
- He contrasts the strictness of the lockdowns in certain areas with the more relaxed approach taken by the MMA community, where fighters and coaches continued training and competing with little disruption.
12. The Rise of Fentanyl and the Drug Crisis:
- Shields discusses the devastating impact of the fentanyl crisis, particularly in cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles, where drug addiction and crime have spiraled out of control.
- He expresses concern about the increasing availability and potency of fentanyl, highlighting the danger it poses to individuals and communities.
- Shields questions the effectiveness of current policies, particularly in San Francisco, where lenient approach towards drug use and homelessness has exacerbated the problem.
- He proposes a more proactive approach, including increased law enforcement, forced rehabilitation, and more resources for education and after-school programs, to combat the crisis.
13. The Future of MMA and Technology:
- Shields discusses the potential impact of technology on MMA, specifically the potential for virtual reality training and competition in the metaverse.
- He highlights the potential benefits of a virtual reality environment, such as pain-free training and the ability to experience fights without the risks of injury.
- Shields expresses concern about the potential for control and censorship within the metaverse, mirroring the current issues faced on social media platforms.
- He wonders if the metaverse could become a dystopian reality, where individuals are limited in their choices and freedoms.
14. The Future of the World:
- Shields reflects on the rapid pace of change in society, comparing the world he grew up in with the current landscape, particularly the rise of social media and technology.
- He discusses the potential for even greater changes in the coming years, particularly the impact of advancements in artificial intelligence and the growing influence of corporations like Tesla and Neuralink.
- Shields expresses both excitement and apprehension about the future, acknowledging the potential for both progress and dystopia.
- He concludes by suggesting that society may be heading towards a more virtualized reality, with the metaverse potentially becoming a primary aspect of human life.
5 Memorable Quotes:
- “The pandemic continues, but its origins are still a nefarious mystery. How did the world get sick? How did COVID really spread? How did the satanic elite tell the world about this bioweapon ahead of time?” – Joe Rogan, introducing the topic of the “snake venom” documentary and the prevailing narrative around COVID-19.
- “The crazy thing is they ban this from YouTube. Oh, really? Yeah. And what and what point in time? Come on. What what what about fun?” – Shields questioning the censorship of the “snake venom” documentary, highlighting the potential for unintended consequences.
- “We were always in the teams that were always, like, not, like, huge anti, but we were just never doing it. We Right. With Nick, Nate, Gil, all those guys. Right. Those are some of the few guys that didn’t. Mhmm. You know, like, in the sport’s true, most people are doing it. It it made it hard not to because you know everyone’s doing it.” – Shields describing the widespread steroid use in MMA during his early days.
- “That’s a dangerous thing for a fighter. Right? When you stop having that kind of enthusiasm that got you into fighting in the first place, it’s such an intense sport. You have to have a 100% enthusiasm and motivation to do it.” – Shields emphasizing the mental and emotional aspect of fighting and the importance of maintaining that passion.
- “People are different. Right. But, yeah, the whole the whole outdoor mass thing was just odd. When I was in San Francisco, I’d be the only person like Golden Gate Park walking my dog without a mask. And people be looking at me like I’m a freak walking around, turning their backs on me, yelling at me.” – Shields expressing his frustration with the extreme COVID-19 lockdowns and the pressure to conform to certain behaviors.
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