JRE #1777 – Andrew Dessler

This podcast features a passionate discussion on climate change with Andrew Dessler, a climate scientist and professor of Atmospheric Sciences at Texas A&M University. Joe Rogan invites Dessler to counter the arguments presented by his previous guest, Steve Koonan, who had a more skeptical stance on the severity of human-caused climate change. The episode delves into various aspects of climate science, energy policy, and the broader societal impact of our reliance on fossil fuels.

Provocative topics include the effectiveness of renewable energy sources, the role of nuclear power, the economic implications of climate change, and the influence of fossil fuel companies on political decisions. Underlying themes explore the importance of understanding scientific consensus, the challenges of addressing complex environmental issues, and the need for informed and critical thinking in navigating climate change discourse.

Major Topics:

1. Climate Change Denial Strategies: Dessler draws parallels between climate change denial and the tactics used by the tobacco industry to downplay the dangers of smoking. He argues that certain scientists present a “carefully curated picture of reality,” emphasizing uncertainties and minimizing the evidence supporting human-caused climate change. This approach aims to create reasonable doubt and delay action on climate change mitigation.
2. The Importance of Scientific Consensus: Dessler emphasizes the strong consensus within the scientific community that human activity is the primary driver of global warming. He highlights the numerous lines of evidence, including rising CO2 levels, temperature trends, and the “fingerprint” of greenhouse gas warming. He contends that dismissing this consensus is akin to ignoring overwhelming evidence in a criminal trial.
3. The Effectiveness of Renewable Energy: Dessler argues that renewable energy sources like wind and solar are now the cheapest and most effective options for power generation. He cites data showing the rapid growth of renewables and the declining costs of solar and wind technology. He believes that the transition to a carbon-free grid is achievable and economically viable.
4. The Texas Freeze: The podcast examines the 2021 Texas freeze as a case study in the vulnerability of the grid to extreme weather events. Dessler emphasizes that the failure was not due to renewable energy sources but rather to the reliance on natural gas, which proved inadequate during the extreme cold. He sees this event as a warning about the risks associated with continued dependence on fossil fuels.
5. Nuclear Power: Dessler expresses support for nuclear power as a viable option for carbon-free energy production. He acknowledges the risks associated with nuclear power but argues that the benefits of mitigating climate change outweigh those risks. He believes that advancements in nuclear technology have significantly enhanced safety and reliability.
6. The Cost of Climate Change: Dessler challenges the argument that climate change will have minimal economic impact. He points to the significant uncertainties in economic models and the potentially devastating consequences of climate-related events, such as extreme weather, sea level rise, and agricultural disruptions. He believes that ignoring these potential costs is a dangerous gamble.
7. Fossil Fuel Lobbying: Dessler highlights the influence of fossil fuel companies on political decision-making. He cites examples of legislative actions that prioritize fossil fuel interests over environmental concerns and public health. He argues that this undue influence hampers progress towards a sustainable energy future.
8. The Role of Agriculture: Dessler acknowledges agriculture as a significant source of greenhouse gas emissions. He discusses the complexities of transitioning to sustainable farming practices and the challenges of balancing profitability with environmental considerations. He believes that addressing these issues will require a combination of policy changes and incentives for farmers.
9. The Limits of Carbon Capture: While Dessler acknowledges the potential of carbon capture technology for removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, he emphasizes that it is not a silver bullet. He believes that relying solely on this technology would require a massive and costly industrial effort and that it should not be viewed as a substitute for reducing emissions at the source.
10. The Urgency of Action: Dessler emphasizes the urgency of taking action on climate change. He argues that the long-term effects of greenhouse gas emissions mean that decisions made today will have profound impacts for centuries to come. He believes that waiting for definitive proof of catastrophic consequences is a dangerous gamble with the future of our planet.
11. The Importance of Informed Debate: Dessler advocates for informed public debates on climate policy, emphasizing the importance of separating scientific facts from value judgments. He believes that while the scientific evidence is clear, there is room for discussion about the best ways to implement policies to address climate change.
12. The Need for Accountability: Dessler calls for polluters to be held accountable for the damage they cause. He argues that corporations should be financially responsible for the external costs associated with their activities, including pollution and climate change. He believes that holding polluters accountable is essential for creating a sustainable and equitable future.
13. The Importance of Individual Choice: While acknowledging the role of government policy, Dessler also emphasizes the importance of individual choices in reducing environmental impact. He encourages listeners to consider their own consumption patterns and to make choices that support a sustainable future.
14. The Potential for Innovation: Dessler expresses optimism about the potential for technological innovation to address climate change challenges. He points to the rapid advancements in renewable energy and battery technology as examples of the positive impact of human ingenuity in finding solutions to environmental problems.
15. The Role of Social Change: Dessler acknowledges the need for broader societal changes to address climate change. He believes that shifting consumer preferences, promoting ethical consumption, and advocating for political reform are crucial steps towards creating a sustainable future.

Memorable Quotes:

• “The purpose of practical politics is to keep people along by a series of mostly imaginary hobgoblins so that they can be clamoring to be led to safety.” – Koonan, quoting H. L. Mencken
• “They have over egged the custard.” – Koonan, expressing his view on the alarmist nature of some climate change narratives.
• “It’s not a science problem. It’s a governmental problem.” – Dessler, emphasizing the need for political action to address climate change.
• “Money talks.” – Dessler, acknowledging the influence of financial incentives in driving decisions related to climate change.
• “If you wanna have a world where the government doesn’t tell you what to do, we need to solve climate change now.” – Dessler, highlighting the potential for increased government intervention in the face of a deteriorating climate.