JRE MMA Show #111 with John Danaher

This Joe Rogan podcast with John Danaher, a legendary jiu jitsu coach, delves deep into the world of grappling, focusing on the evolution of the sport and the strategies for achieving submission victories. The podcast sparks compelling conversations around rule sets, athlete incentives, and the future of grappling. Underlying themes explore the importance of culture in shaping a sport, the inherent tension between entertainment and technical prowess, and the pursuit of mastery in martial arts.

1. The Rise of Flow Grappling:

• John Danaher highlights the emergence of Flow Grappling as a platform for showcasing elite grapplers.
• He draws parallels between Flow Grappling’s innovative approach to grappling and the UFC’s impact on mixed martial arts.
• Flow Grappling’s success lies in its focus on athlete pay, exposure, and captivating production.
• This platform aims to bring a new level of legitimacy and mainstream appeal to the sport.

2. The Submission-Focused Approach:

• John Danaher argues for a rule set that prioritizes submission holds over points-based scoring.
• He emphasizes that a submission-oriented approach aligns with the core principles of Jiu-Jitsu and provides a more definitive outcome.
• He cites legendary athletes like Marcelo Garcia and Rickson Gracie as examples of fighters who embodied this approach.
• This approach aims to enhance the sport’s entertainment value by encouraging aggressive, submission-driven strategies.

3. The Culture of Submission:

• John Danaher believes that fostering a culture of submission within training gyms is more effective than relying solely on rules.
• He argues that athletes are often adept at finding loopholes in rules to achieve minimal victory.
• The goal is to cultivate a mindset where athletes strive for dominance through submission, regardless of the rules.
• This approach aims to create a more dynamic and engaging grappling environment.

4. The Challenges of Time Limits:

• John Danaher and Joe Rogan discuss the limitations of time limits in grappling events.
• They argue that time limits can lead to athletes strategically avoiding contact or focusing solely on overtime strategies.
• They propose a no-time limit format for certain high-profile matches to maximize excitement and provide a definitive conclusion.
• This approach aims to create a more unpredictable and captivating grappling experience.

5. The EBI Rule Set:

• John Danaher acknowledges the unique aspects of the EBI rule set, where competitors start in specific positions like back mount or armbar defense.
• He highlights the pro and con of this approach: the challenge of starting in a vulnerable position versus the potential for an unfair advantage for exceptional grapplers.
• He notes that EBI, like other rule sets, can be gamed by athletes, leading to less engaging matches.
• This discussion explores the potential for innovative rule sets to impact the flow and excitement of grappling events.

6. The Importance of Storytelling in Grappling:

• John Danaher emphasizes the importance of narrative in grappling matches, highlighting the role of individual athlete stories and competitive rivalries.
• He points out that captivating narratives can elevate the sport’s entertainment value and attract new fans.
• This discussion underscores the importance of storytelling in any sport, creating a deeper connection between fans and athletes.
• The narrative element can enhance the emotional impact of grappling events.

7. The Legacy of Mark Schultz:

• Joe Rogan and John Danaher discuss the legendary wrestler Mark Schultz, his incredible athleticism, and his missed opportunity in MMA.
• They highlight the controversy surrounding Schultz’s inability to compete in the UFC due to his affiliation with Brigham Young University.
• They lament the inaccurate portrayal of Schultz’s life in the movie “Foxcatcher,” particularly the alteration of his opponent in a key fight.
• This discussion explores the intersection of sports, politics, and personal narrative, highlighting the importance of historical accuracy.

8. The Cultural Impact of Submission Grappling:

• John Danaher discusses the evolution of Jiu-Jitsu and its influence on other martial arts.
• He notes that Jiu-Jitsu’s emphasis on submission has become increasingly prominent in MMA.
• The podcast explores the impact of grappling techniques on the overall landscape of combat sports.
• This discussion acknowledges the influence of grappling on modern fighting styles.

9. The Role of Coaches in Shaping Athletes:

• John Danaher highlights the pivotal role of coaches in shaping the mindset and strategy of grapplers.
• He emphasizes that coaches can instill a culture of excellence and a commitment to submission.
• This discussion explores the impact of coaches on the competitive landscape and the development of individual athletes.
• The podcast acknowledges the importance of mentorship in martial arts training.

10. The Future of Grappling:

• John Danaher and Joe Rogan express their optimistic outlook on the future of grappling.
• They believe that the sport is poised for further growth and mainstream acceptance.
• They envision a future where grappling is recognized as a legitimate and exciting spectator sport.
• This discussion reflects the continued evolution and potential of grappling as a dynamic martial art.

5 Memorable Quotes:

• “A true key in the development of any sport is some kind of organization which showcases it.” – John Danaher underlines the need for a platform to elevate grappling.
• “The further you get away from the idea that Jiu-Jitsu is about controlling the submission, the less interesting the sport becomes.” – Danaher emphasizes the core principle of submission in Jiu-Jitsu.
• “There’s never going to be a rule set which forces athletes towards submission. The way it’s going to change is through culture.” – Danaher believes that a cultural shift is necessary for a submission-focused approach.
• “Ideally, in my opinion, a no time limit submission match is the way to go.” – Danaher and Rogan advocate for a format that emphasizes a definitive conclusion.
• “I mean it first of all he’s just a ball of muscle. I mean Mark Schultz in his prime was a fucking savage.” – Rogan describes the incredible physical prowess of Mark Schultz.