15-Jan-21
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This podcast delves into the complex and controversial topic of free speech in the digital age, featuring Ira Glasser, a renowned defender of free expression. The conversation explores the evolving role of social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook, their power as gatekeepers, and the challenges of balancing individual rights with the potential for harm. Underlying themes include the slippery slope of censorship, the dangers of government regulation of speech, and the importance of open discourse in a democratic society.
Here are some of the major topics discussed:
Social Media Platforms as Gatekeepers
1. The Dilemma of Private Sector Censorship: The podcast examines the legal and ethical implications of social media platforms’ decisions to ban users, particularly high-profile figures like Donald Trump. While acknowledging their First Amendment right to choose who they publish, Glasser raises concerns about the potential for arbitrary exclusions and the impact on public discourse.
2. Analogies to Traditional Media: The conversation explores whether social media platforms are best understood as publishers, utilities, or something entirely new. Glasser argues that the “utility model,” similar to the telephone company, may be the best starting point for thinking about the problem, emphasizing neutrality and avoiding content-based censorship.
3. The Case of Parler: The podcast discusses the rise of Parler, an alternative platform favored by right-wing users, and its subsequent removal from app stores and hosting services. Glasser highlights the concerns about limiting access to diverse viewpoints and the potential for increased polarization when only one side of an argument is represented.
4. The Limits of Private Discretion: The conversation explores the question of whether private companies should have the power to restrict content on their platforms. Glasser argues that a content-neutral approach, similar to public utilities, could be a better solution, avoiding arbitrary censorship and protecting individual rights.
The Perils of Censorship and Hate Speech
5. The “Hate Speech” Conundrum: The podcast addresses the common argument for banning hate speech. Glasser contends that defining and regulating “hate speech” is fraught with danger, as it ultimately depends on who holds the power to decide what constitutes “hateful” expression. He warns about the potential for abuse and the silencing of dissenting voices.
6. The Power of Symbolic Speech: Glasser uses the example of Sydney Street’s flag burning to illustrate how individuals have historically resorted to dramatic actions to amplify their voices when traditional platforms were inaccessible. The podcast argues that symbolic speech often serves as a powerful form of protest, even when it may seem provocative or controversial.
7. The Price of Free Speech: Glasser emphasizes the importance of accepting the discomfort of hearing views we disagree with. He argues that the price of freedom of speech is accepting the ugliness of some expressions, as the alternative is giving the government the power to decide what speech is permissible, with potentially devastating consequences.
8. The Distinction Between Speech and Conduct: The podcast highlights the crucial distinction between protected speech and actionable conduct. While individuals have the right to express opinions, even if they are hateful or offensive, they do not have the right to incite violence, threaten individuals, or engage in criminal activity.
Incitement and the First Amendment
9. The Brandenburg Standard: The podcast examines the legal standard for incitement, the “Brandenburg test,” which requires imminent and explicit connection between speech and illegal conduct. Glasser discusses the historical evolution of this standard, highlighting its importance in protecting speech that could be perceived as dangerous or inflammatory.
10. Trump’s Speech and the Capitol Riot: The conversation analyzes Donald Trump’s rhetoric leading up to the January 6th attack on the Capitol, considering whether his words met the Brandenburg test for incitement. Glasser argues that Trump’s actions may have crossed the line, given the direct connection between his speech and the subsequent violence.
11. The Impeachment Process and Incitement: The podcast explores the impeachment proceedings against Trump and their focus on the allegation of incitement. Glasser emphasizes the potential for broadening the definition of incitement to encompass speech that should be protected under the First Amendment, arguing that this could have dangerous consequences for free expression.
12. The Slippery Slope of Censorship: The conversation highlights the dangers of using a high-profile case like Trump’s to justify broader restrictions on speech. Glasser warns against the “slippery slope” of expanding the definition of incitement and potentially silencing legitimate dissenting voices.
The Future of Free Speech and Democratic Discourse
13. The Need for Dialogue and Reconciliation: The podcast emphasizes the importance of dialogue and reconciliation in a deeply polarized society. Glasser suggests that engaging with those who hold differing views, even if we disagree strongly, is essential for maintaining a healthy democracy.
14. The Role of National Leadership: The podcast argues that national leaders have a responsibility to model civility and respect for differing opinions. Glasser contends that the president’s words and actions can significantly impact the norms of political discourse and the legitimacy of certain behaviors.
15. The Importance of Institutional Change: The podcast suggests that reforming institutions like Congress, where polarization has become increasingly acute, is crucial for fostering a more collaborative and productive political environment. Glasser argues that the ability to find common ground and compromise is vital for a functioning democracy.
16. The Need for a Longer View: Glasser reminds listeners that social and political change is a long and arduous process. He emphasizes the importance of having faith in the progress that has been made, while recognizing that there is still much work to be done to achieve a more just and equitable society.
17. The Importance of Personal Action: The podcast concludes by urging individuals to take personal responsibility for fostering a more civil and tolerant society. Glasser emphasizes the power of one-on-one interactions and the importance of modeling respect for differing viewpoints in our daily lives.
Memorable Quotes
1. “The only speech that people don’t wanna hear is speech that they don’t like.” – Glasser underscores the human tendency to favor speech that aligns with our own views, highlighting the importance of confronting discomfort and embracing diverse perspectives.
2. “The price we pay for having the freedom to speak and listen and argue is that some of the stuff we have to hear is ugly.” – Glasser articulates the necessary trade-off between freedom and discomfort, emphasizing the importance of protecting free speech even when it includes offensive or hateful content.
3. “If you regard your opponent as a mortal enemy all the time, then you can’t have a democracy.” – This quote emphasizes the danger of demonization and the need for respectful engagement with those who hold differing views, even in deeply polarized times.
4. “The very contact, the very discussion is humanizing.” – Glasser underscores the power of personal interaction in bridging divides and fostering understanding, even when disagreements are deeply rooted.
5. “The first amendment is the blood life for social justice.” – This powerful statement emphasizes the essential connection between free speech and the pursuit of social justice, arguing that they are not in conflict but rather mutually dependent.
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