JRE #1517 – Nancy Panza

This podcast with Nancy Panza, Ph.D., a Professor of Psychology at Cal State Fullerton and forensic/police psychologist, dives into the complex and often overlooked psychological landscape of police work. The conversation touches upon a range of pressing issues, from officer wellness and training to the impact of the “defund the police” movement and the role of implicit bias. Underlying themes explore the societal implications of police misconduct, the challenges of maintaining mental health in high-stress environments, and the need for comprehensive reforms that prioritize both public safety and officer well-being.

1. The Psychological Impact of Police Work:
   • Panza highlights the unique and unrelenting stress police officers face, emphasizing that their jobs involve constant exposure to trauma, violence, and death, which takes a toll on their mental health.
   • She discusses the importance of regular mental wellness checks and the need to address the stigma associated with seeking help.
   • Panza explains how the cycle of hypervigilance and recovery can lead to burnout, detachment, and an increased risk of suicide among officers.
   • The conversation underscores the importance of officers maintaining a balance between their professional and personal lives to prevent burnout and maintain mental well-being.
2. Officer Training:
   • The need for enhanced and comprehensive training for police officers is a central theme.
   • While acknowledging the importance of firearms training, Panza argues that de-escalation, communication skills, and mental health awareness are crucial aspects that are often neglected.
   • She stresses the need for consistent training throughout an officer’s career and argues that this should include physical fitness requirements to ensure officers are equipped to handle physically demanding situations.
   • The conversation emphasizes the importance of recognizing that police work is not solely about combat but also about de-escalation and community engagement.
3. The Defund the Police Movement:
   • Panza expresses her strong opposition to the “defund the police” movement, arguing that it is a simplistic solution to a complex problem and that police are a vital part of society.
   • She highlights the negative consequences of defunding, citing the increase in crime and violence in cities like New York and Minneapolis, where police departments have faced budget cuts and reduced staffing.
   • Panza argues that instead of defunding, we need to focus on reforming and improving police departments by providing better training, funding, and mental health support.
   • She emphasizes the need for a more nuanced approach that acknowledges the complexities of both police work and the communities they serve.
4. The Importance of Community Policing:
   • The podcast emphasizes the value of community policing as a crucial tool for building trust and reducing crime.
   • Panza argues that police officers need to engage with their communities, humanize themselves, and build positive relationships to foster a sense of partnership rather than adversarial relationships.
   • She highlights the importance of listening to community concerns and addressing them through collaborative efforts.
   • The conversation suggests that a more integrated and engaged approach to policing can lead to greater safety and a stronger sense of community.
5. Implicit Bias and Screening:
   • Panza explores the complexities of implicit bias, acknowledging that it is a pervasive issue that affects everyone.
   • She cautions against using implicit bias tests for screening police officer candidates, citing concerns about their reliability and the fact that bias alone does not predict action.
   • Panza argues that while implicit bias training can be beneficial in raising awareness and promoting change, it should not be seen as a magic bullet.
   • The conversation highlights the importance of comprehensive screening processes that go beyond implicit bias tests and focus on identifying potential red flags and warning signs.
6. The Role of Culture and Accountability:
   • The podcast emphasizes the importance of fostering a positive and supportive culture within police departments.
   • Panza highlights the challenges of speaking out against misconduct when there is a hierarchy and a strong emphasis on loyalty.
   • She discusses the need for better accountability mechanisms, such as body cameras and mandatory reporting of misconduct, to prevent abuses of power and create a more ethical environment.
   • The conversation underscores the need for a culture that encourages transparency, accountability, and a willingness to challenge problematic behaviors within police departments.

Here are 5 memorable quotes from the podcast:

1. “I’m sure there are things beyond my realm that that also answer this question. But for me, the things that I think we could be doing different that would really make a difference are the regular annual mental wellness checks.” – Panza emphasizes the importance of regular check-ins to monitor officer well-being.
2. “The officers who end up having the most problems are the ones who once they get on are in a department where that is the culture. that is that that that those types of behaviors are acceptable.” – Panza highlights the role of departmental culture in shaping officer behavior.
3. “The other piece and the one that that that I focus more on from my end is the wellness. You know, is this somebody who is burning out? Is this somebody who has gone into a a dangerous place, you know, psychologically that they started out, and they were fine when we screen them up front. But, you know, over 5 or 10 or 15 years, they’ve seen so much.” – Panza underlines the long-term impact of police work on officers’ mental health.
4. “All those people that are out there protesting that think they’re immune from it because they’re the ones saying defund the police, hey man, they’ll fucking rob you too. They’ll shoot you too.” – Panza cautions against the potential consequences of defunding police departments, arguing it could create an environment where criminals are empowered.
5. “It’s so easy to let that, you know, to to to go the the wrong way. And so and and, like I said, and I don’t think that these that the folks that you see in these videos started out as bad people.” – Panza emphasizes that police officers are human beings and that even those who commit acts of misconduct are not inherently bad people.