24-Jan-20
This podcast features a candid conversation between Joe Rogan and former Strikeforce Lightweight Champion and Bellator commentator Josh Thomson. They discuss a range of topics, including the emotional toll of fighting, the importance of respecting fighters, and the growth of MMA beyond the UFC. Provocative topics include Steven A Smith’s MMA commentary, Conor McGregor’s impact on the sport, and the future of cross-promotional fights. Underlying themes explore the unique challenges of fighting as a profession, the importance of fostering a supportive community within MMA, and the constant evolution of the sport.
Major Topics
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Steven A Smith’s MMA Commentary:
- Thomson criticizes Smith’s lack of knowledge about MMA and his use of overly aggressive and disrespectful language towards fighters, especially after a devastating knockout.
- He contrasts Smith’s approach with the more respectful and knowledgeable commentary style of former fighters like DC.
- The discussion explores the emotional cost of losing in MMA compared to other sports, highlighting the need for more sensitivity and understanding.
- Thomson advocates for commentators who genuinely understand the sport and its nuances, emphasizing that disrespect towards fighters is unacceptable.
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Conor McGregor’s Impact on MMA:
- Thomson acknowledges McGregor’s undeniable talent and performance under pressure, particularly his comeback against Donald Cerrone.
- He defends McGregor against Smith’s criticism, emphasizing that McGregor’s skills are often overlooked due to his knockout prowess and unorthodox style.
- The discussion touches on the fine line between marketing a fight and disrespecting a fighter, especially when it involves personal attacks and family members.
- Thomson believes McGregor’s ability to create animosity and generate attention, as seen in the Aldo fight, can be a double-edged sword, potentially affecting the opponent’s performance.
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Respect for Fighters:
- Thomson stresses the importance of respecting fighters, both in commentary and in daily interactions, due to the physical and emotional risks they face.
- He emphasizes that fighters deserve more respect than athletes in other sports because their profession involves real physical consequences.
- He argues that the culture of sports broadcasting, with its focus on shit-talking and diminishing athletes, is inappropriate for MMA.
- He believes that fostering a supportive and respectful community within MMA is crucial for fighters’ well-being and the sport’s overall image.
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The Growth of MMA Beyond the UFC:
- Thomson highlights the growing talent pool in organizations like Bellator and ONE Championship, challenging the notion that the UFC is the only source of top-level fighters.
- He believes these organizations offer more opportunities for fighters, especially those in less popular weight classes, to earn significant income.
- He envisions a future where cross-promotional fights between champions from different organizations could determine the true best fighter in the world.
- He argues that the rise of these organizations creates more competition and benefits the sport overall, giving fighters more options and creating a more dynamic landscape.
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The Importance of Coaching and Training:
- Thomson discusses the vital role of coaches and training camps in developing fighters, especially for those transitioning from other sports like wrestling.
- He highlights the unique expertise of camps like AKA, known for their strong wrestling programs, in grooming fighters for success.
- He believes that proper management and coaching are essential for young fighters, particularly those with early success, to avoid burnout and navigate the complexities of the sport.
- He emphasizes that fighting requires a focused approach and dedication to a specific area of training, as seen in Aaron Pico’s development under the guidance of Jackson Wink.
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The Challenges of Fighting as a Profession:
- Thomson discusses the financial realities of fighting, where fighters often face a stark contrast between the high paydays of top stars and the struggles of those further down the ranks.
- He acknowledges the pressure on fighters to accept fights on short notice, sometimes jeopardizing their career trajectory for financial stability.
- He shares his own experience of turning down a fight for a title shot due to the risk of fighting an unknown opponent, highlighting the complexities of match-making.
- Thomson encourages fighters to explore alternative avenues for income, emphasizing the importance of long-term career planning beyond the fighting years.
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The Importance of Confidence in Fighting:
- Thomson emphasizes the importance of confidence in fighting, both for performance and mental well-being.
- He acknowledges the devastating impact of losses, especially when compounded by disrespectful commentary from uninformed sources.
- He believes that fighters should focus on building each other up, rather than tearing each other down, to foster a supportive community and promote confidence.
- Thomson suggests that a more positive approach to commentary and analysis could help elevate fighters and the sport as a whole.
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The Evolution of MMA:
- Thomson highlights the significant evolution of MMA, from its early days of limited knowledge and specialized backgrounds to the current era of well-rounded fighters who have trained MMA from a young age.
- He acknowledges the impact of pioneers like Frank Shamrock in shaping the sport’s focus on conditioning and well-rounded skillsets.
- He believes that the sport continues to evolve, with new techniques like calf kicks becoming increasingly prevalent, and fighters adapting to the ever-changing landscape.
- He emphasizes the importance of staying informed and a student of the game to keep up with the sport’s constant progression.
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The Future of MMA:
- Thomson expresses his desire for more cross-promotional fights, challenging the UFC’s isolationist perspective and creating opportunities for fighters from different organizations to face off.
- He acknowledges the business considerations behind the UFC’s reluctance for cross-promotion, but believes it would ultimately benefit the sport.
- He suggests a yearly end-of-year event featuring matchups between top fighters from various organizations as a way to showcase the sport’s depth and generate excitement for fans.
- He argues that the sport should be focused on showcasing the best fights, regardless of organizational affiliation, to create a more unified and engaging experience for fans.
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The Role of Commentary in MMA:
- Thomson discusses the growing trend of using former fighters as commentators and analysts, emphasizing the value of their insider knowledge and experience.
- He highlights the importance of genuine enthusiasm and respect for fighters in commentary, which resonates with hardcore fans who appreciate authenticity.
- He believes that commentators have a responsibility to elevate fighters, even those on the prelims, and present them as potential future champions.
- He encourages aspiring commentators to study the sport deeply and approach it with the same passion and dedication they would bring to fighting.
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The Uniqueness of MMA:
- Thomson acknowledges the unique nature of MMA, where the organization’s name often overshadows the individual fighter’s accomplishments.
- He argues that MMA should focus on the fights themselves, rather than the branding of the organizations, to create a more unified and focused experience for fans.
- He believes that the sport should be more about showcasing the best fighters, regardless of their promotional affiliations, than promoting specific organizations.
- Thomson believes that a more unified approach to MMA, focusing on the sport itself, could lead to a more dynamic and exciting landscape for fighters and fans alike.
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The Importance of Long-Term Career Planning:
- Thomson emphasizes the importance of fighters to plan for a life after fighting, recognizing that it is a physically demanding career with a limited shelf life.
- He advocates for exploring alternative avenues for income, such as gyms, podcasts, or clothing lines, to supplement fighting income and ensure financial stability.
- He shares his own experience of transitioning from fighting to commentary and podcasting, highlighting the importance of finding a new passion with the same dedication and intensity.
- He encourages fighters to approach their post-fighting career with the same focus and drive they exhibited as athletes, emphasizing that success can be achieved in other areas.
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The Emotional Impact of Fighting:
- Thomson recognizes the emotional toll of fighting, highlighting the highs of victory and the devastating lows of defeat, especially when compounded by public criticism.
- He discusses the importance of finding balance in life after fighting, recognizing that the sport can become a defining part of a fighter’s identity.
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The Role of Social Media in MMA:
- Thomson acknowledges the influence of social media in MMA, where fighters can gain a large following and leverage their popularity for various ventures.
- He believes that social media can be both a boon and a curse for fighters, as it can amplify their successes but also magnify their failures.
- He warns against becoming too focused on the validation of likes and followers, as it can create a false sense of self-importance and hinder long-term career planning.
- Thomson encourages fighters to use social media strategically, building their brand and connecting with fans without becoming overly reliant on it for self-worth.
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The Role of Organizations in MMA:
- Thomson discusses the importance of organizations like the UFC and Bellator in promoting and developing fighters, but also highlights the need for them to support fighters beyond their active fighting careers.
- He acknowledges the business-driven nature of MMA organizations, where the pursuit of profit can sometimes conflict with the well-being of fighters.
- He shares his perspective on how organizations can better support fighters’ long-term success by fostering a more collaborative and respectful environment.
- Thomson believes that organizations can play a more active role in preparing fighters for a life after fighting, providing resources and guidance for transitioning into new careers.
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The Role of Fans in MMA:
- Thomson acknowledges the passionate nature of MMA fans and their ability to recognize genuine enthusiasm and knowledge in commentators.
- He emphasizes the importance of connecting with fans on a personal level, building relationships and creating a sense of community.
- Thomson recognizes the role of fans in shaping the sport’s direction, influencing match-making decisions and creating demand for specific fights.
- He encourages fans to support fighters beyond the UFC, recognizing the talent and dedication in other organizations and contributing to the sport’s overall growth.
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The Importance of Physical and Mental Well-being:
- Thomson discusses the importance of physical and mental well-being for fighters, recognizing the toll that training and competition take on their bodies.
- He emphasizes the need for fighters to prioritize their health, both during and after their fighting careers, to avoid long-term injuries and maintain a healthy lifestyle.
- Thomson acknowledges the psychological challenges of fighting, including the impact of losses and the pressure to perform, and emphasizes the importance of seeking support and resources to manage these challenges.
- He encourages fighters to focus on their overall well-being, recognizing that a healthy body and mind are essential for achieving success both inside and outside the cage.
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The Evolution of MMA Rules and Regulations:
- Thomson discusses the ongoing evolution of MMA rules and regulations, highlighting the debate over knee strikes to the head of a downed opponent and the impact of these changes on fighting styles.
- He shares his perspective on the current rules, recognizing both the benefits and drawbacks of certain regulations.
- Thomson engages in a discussion about the future of MMA rules, exploring ideas for a more unified set of regulations and potential changes to the fighting environment.
- He believes that the constant evolution of rules is necessary for the safety of fighters while maintaining the sport’s exciting and unpredictable nature.
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The Cultural Impact of MMA:
- Thomson acknowledges the global reach of MMA, highlighting the influence of Japanese organizations like Pride FC and the unique fighting styles that emerged from different cultures.
- He discusses the cultural differences in fight presentation and audience reactions, comparing the quiet, respectful crowds in Japan to the boisterous, energetic crowds in the United States.
- Thomson shares his own experiences fighting in Japan, highlighting the cultural nuances and the impact of fighting styles from different parts of the world.
- He believes that MMA’s global appeal fosters a diverse range of fighting styles and promotes a greater understanding and appreciation for different cultures.
Memorable Quotes:
- “There’s the emotional cost of losing a fight is so much different than losing a game. It’s not the same. And there’s a culture in sports broadcasting whether it’s radio or television, this diminishing of people.”
- “These guys lay it on the line every time. We’re not slapping a puck or hitting a baseball, okay? We’re really out there getting hurt.”
- “You’re talking about unbelievable physical consequences including knock on wood in our sports very rare. But death. Yeah. No, it’s true.”
- “It’s not the same thing as crossing a line with a football. It’s different, it’s very intense and very personal. And it’s also very fucking dangerous.”
- “Your new life is gonna cost your own one. Let it go. It’s okay. Move on. But give the same energy and enthusiasm to your new job or whatever it is you want to do that you did to fighting.”