JRE #1201 – William von Hippel

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13-Nov-18






Joe Rogan Podcast #1201 – William von Hippel

This podcast with William von Hippel, a psychology professor, explores the evolution of human intelligence and social behavior. It examines pivotal moments in our ancestors’ journey, including the shift from rainforest to savanna, the development of bipedalism and the throwing arm, and the crucial role of fire and cooked meat in brain expansion. The conversation dives into fascinating aspects of human nature, such as the origins of jealousy, the complexities of mating systems, and the power of over-imitation. Underlying themes revolve around the interplay between genes and environment, the impact of random chance on evolution, and the importance of understanding our evolutionary history to navigate modern society.

Major Topics and Deep Underlying Themes:

1. The Social Leap: A Shift from Rainforest to Savanna

  • Why did our ancestors leave the rainforest for the savanna? The drying out of the rainforest due to the Great African Rift Valley forced our ancestors onto the open plains.
  • How did they survive on the savanna? Early humans, similar to chimps, likely traveled in larger groups for protection and relied on collective action.
  • The Importance of Collective Action: This shift to the savanna provided the impetus for cooperation and the development of a social cognitive niche. This working together, sharing knowledge and resources, paved the way for further intellectual and social development.
  • Early Human Traits: Early humans were bipedal, exhibited more lateral musculature, and possessed an advantage for throwing, which contributed to their survival on the savanna.

2. The Throwing Hypothesis and the Evolution of Intelligence

  • The Throwing Arm: The development of a throwing arm, a byproduct of bipedalism and lateral musculature, enabled early humans to kill at a distance, giving them a defensive advantage against predators.
  • Collective Action and the Brain: The capacity for throwing, in turn, favored collective action. Groups could better defend themselves against predators, leading to a selective advantage for individuals with larger brains who could better coordinate and strategize.
  • Brain Expansion: The brain size of early humans gradually increased, especially with the arrival of Homo erectus, who had brains twice the size of chimpanzees. This expansion is thought to be a result of the need to manage complex social interactions and coordinate increasingly sophisticated activities.
  • The Cooked Meat Hypothesis: Richard Wrangham’s hypothesis suggests that the discovery of fire and cooked meat played a significant role in brain expansion by providing more readily digestible nutrients, allowing for a smaller gut and more energy for brain development.

3. The Origins of Jealousy and the Role of Sexual Selection

  • Jealousy as an Evolutionary Trait: Jealousy, often seen as a negative emotion, is thought to have evolved because it serves a purpose in ensuring reproductive success. For men, jealousy acts as a mechanism to protect their mate and ensure paternity, while for women, it focuses on resource allocation and potential threats to their partner’s commitment.
  • The Influence of Mating Systems: The size of testicles provides a clue to the mating system of a species. Large testicles indicate sperm competition, typical of polyamorous species like chimpanzees and bonobos. Humans have testicles that are larger than gorillas but not as large as chimpanzees, suggesting a mating system that is primarily monogamous but still susceptible to sperm competition.
  • The Importance of Competition: Sexual selection drives competition between individuals for mates, and even among species with pair bonding, both males and females compete for the best partners. This competition, fueled by jealousy, can drive innovation and creative strategies for attracting mates.
  • The Monogamous Advantage: While human mating systems are not strictly monogamous, there is evidence that a serial monogamous system evolved because it provides a more stable environment for raising children. This system allows for a division of labor (men hunting, women gathering) and a greater investment in offspring, fostering the development of complex social bonds and cooperative behaviors.

4. The Power of Over-Imitation and Theory of Mind

  • Theory of Mind: Theory of mind, the ability to understand that others have different thoughts, beliefs, and intentions than our own, is a key component of human intelligence. It emerges in children around age 4 and is a fundamental prerequisite for learning and social interaction.
  • Over-Imitation: Over-imitation, the tendency to imitate even irrelevant actions, is a behavior that is unique to humans. It is likely driven by our theory of mind, as we assume that even seemingly meaningless actions might hold hidden value and are worth copying for potential benefits.
  • The Role of Imitation in Learning: Over-imitation allows for efficient learning by observing and copying the behaviors of others, even those we may not fully understand. This process enables the transmission of complex skills, knowledge, and cultural practices, contributing to our ability to adapt to diverse environments.
  • The Limits of Chimpanzee Learning: Chimpanzees, despite being highly intelligent, lack a fully developed theory of mind, limiting their ability to teach and learn from each other effectively. They primarily learn through observation and direct experience, resulting in much slower knowledge transfer compared to humans.

5. The Role of Random Chance and Genetics

  • The Power of Random Chance: Evolution is not a deterministic process. Random mutations, environmental changes, and chance encounters can have a profound impact on the course of evolution. This randomness makes it difficult to predict the outcome of evolutionary processes and highlights the importance of luck in our species’ success.
  • The Influence of Genes: Genes play a significant role in shaping human traits, including intelligence, personality, and behavior. Studies have shown that on average, genetics accounts for about 50% of the variation in these traits, with the remaining 50% attributed to a combination of environment and random events.
  • The Nature of Genetic Influence: Genes do not determine our destiny, but they provide a predisposition or “nudge” that influences our development. This nudge can be amplified or suppressed by environmental factors and personal choices, making the interaction between genes and environment a complex and dynamic process.
  • The Limits of Genetic Manipulation: While advances in genetic engineering, such as CRISPR, offer exciting possibilities for combating disease and enhancing human capabilities, it is crucial to recognize the limitations. Complex traits are influenced by thousands of genes, each playing a tiny role. Therefore, manipulating a few genes will likely have unintended consequences, making widespread genetic manipulation for enhancing specific traits a complex and potentially risky endeavor.

6. The Importance of Understanding Our Evolutionary History

  • The Human Condition: Examining our evolutionary past provides a unique lens for understanding our present. By understanding the origins of our behaviors, motivations, and social structures, we gain insights into why we behave the way we do and how these traits shaped our civilization.
  • Navigating Modern Society: This understanding can help us navigate the complexities of modern society by recognizing our inherent biases, our capacity for cooperation and conflict, and the impact of our decisions on both individual and collective well-being.
  • Overcoming Evolutionary Biases: While our evolutionary history provides valuable insights, it also reveals inherent biases that can lead to harmful consequences. Recognizing these biases can help us mitigate their negative effects and strive for more equitable and harmonious social interactions.
  • The Importance of Open-Mindedness: A critical understanding of our evolutionary history encourages open-mindedness and a willingness to challenge our assumptions and biases. It reminds us that our ideas are not fixed and that we should be open to new information and perspectives, even if they challenge our long-held beliefs.

Memorable Quotes:

  • “The social leap that I’m arguing about is not this pair bonding thing. It’s about how our groups came together to engage in collective action.” – von Hippel emphasizes the importance of cooperation and group dynamics in shaping human evolution.
  • “Our brains are 20 percent of our metabolic energy whether we’re doing math or watching TV. It’s it’s constant drain. And so what are our instances? Why would they pay for that drain?” – von Hippel highlights the significant energy cost of a large brain and the evolutionary pressures that favored its development.
  • “It’s a it’s a really unfortunate fact because And sometimes it matters a lot like, for example, imagine I invented drug and I say here, take a dose and it’ll double your IQ. Instantly, you’re gonna feel like a genius. But unbeknownst to you, I gave everybody 2 doses. You walk out of there, you kind of feel like a dumbass because there’s people saying stuff you can’t understand. Right? So then it would matter. Right.” – von Hippel uses a thought experiment to illustrate the impact of relative comparisons on our perception of ourselves and our capabilities.
  • “The only way you can achieve that is by releasing more nutrients from your food, And the only way you can release more nutrients from your food is by cooking it.” – von Hippel explains the significance of cooked meat in providing readily digestible nutrients, which played a critical role in brain expansion.
  • “I think we evolved to compete with other males in order to get into the mating game. So if you look at our ancestral DNA, you know how you can track our male and female ancestry through mitochondrial DNA on the mother’s side and why? You’ll see that we have far more female ancestors than male. Not quite 2 to 1, but I think it’s close to that. And so what does that tell us? Well, lots of guys are getting left out of the main game entirely, and lots of guys are insemination, lots of different women. So all those things that you said are absolutely true. And all that pushes us for competition. But part of what I believe goes on is part of that competition that we engaged in was in order to get the girl to get into that relationship in the first place.” – von Hippel explains the evolutionary pressures that led to male-male competition for mates and the influence of this competition on human behavior.