JRE #1198 - Derren Brown

9-Nov-18

Joe Rogan Experience #1198 – Derren Brown Podcast Topics

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience features Derren Brown, a renowned English mentalist and illusionist. Brown discusses his latest Netflix special, “Sacrifice,” and delves into the intricacies of human behavior, suggestion, and the power of storytelling. He explores themes of mind control, the placebo effect, the nature of reality, and the importance of embracing life’s complexities.

Podcast Topics:

1. Derren Brown’s Artistic Pursuits:

Brown is a talented painter and street photographer.
He finds artistic expression to be a crucial contrast and complement to his stage work.
Painting allows him to express himself in a private, introspective manner, offering a welcome retreat from the public spotlight.
He finds that both painting and photography help clear his mind and foster a more mindful and open state, aiding his performance work.

2. Derren Brown’s Early Career in Hypnosis:

Brown began his career as a hypnotist, performing at university events.
He credits his initial foray into hypnosis to insecurity, seeking affirmation and control.
He acknowledges the allure and potential for misuse of hypnosis, emphasizing the importance of moving beyond mere showmanship to a more profound understanding of human behavior.
Despite years of practice, Brown admits that he still doesn’t fully understand the mechanics of hypnosis, finding its subtle impact on the human mind endlessly fascinating.

3. The Mechanics of Hypnotic Induction:

Brown describes a technique called handshake induction, which involves interrupting an automatic process, leaving the subject disoriented and suggestible.
He utilizes this technique subtly in his performances, aiming for genuine responses rather than mere play-acting.
Brown highlights the importance of recognizing when a subject is truly responding to suggestions versus simply complying for social reasons.
He contrasts the theatrical approach of stage hypnotists with the more clinical, subtle approach used in therapeutic settings.

4. The Role of Suggestion and Storytelling in Derren Brown’s Work:

Brown emphasizes the power of stories in shaping our understanding of reality.
He argues that even magic tricks rely on storytelling, manipulating the audience’s perception through selective editing of events.
He sees a parallel between the stories we tell ourselves about our experiences and the narratives presented by magicians and hypnotists.
Brown believes that exploring these storytelling techniques reveals a deeper understanding of how our minds construct reality.

5. Derren Brown’s Views on the Placebo Effect:

Brown acknowledges the fascinating power of the placebo effect, where belief in a treatment can lead to tangible, measurable benefits.
He finds that the most effective placebos involve shifting responsibility for the change away from the individual, allowing them to passively receive the benefits.
Brown highlights the importance of setting a convincing environment for the placebo to work, creating a sense of expectation and authority.
He questions whether a positive mindset, even if unfounded, can have a beneficial impact on real-world events, suggesting a possible link between mental state and external outcomes.

6. Strategic Pessimism and the Importance of Embracing Difficulty:

Brown advocates for strategic pessimism, arguing that unwavering self-belief can lead to delusion and disappointment.
He believes that life often throws unexpected curveballs, and a healthy dose of skepticism helps prepare for setbacks and maintain a balanced perspective.
Brown emphasizes the importance of setting achievable goals while recognizing that life’s journey is messy and unpredictable.
He cautions against the dangers of toxic positivity and self-blame, highlighting the importance of accepting setbacks and learning from them.

7. Derren Brown’s Thoughts on the “Secret” and Manifesting:

Brown critiques the “Secret” and its emphasis on manifesting desires through positive thinking, labeling it as a recipe for anxiety and a false sense of control.
He argues that the “Secret” focuses on anecdotal evidence from successful individuals, ignoring the countless failures and external factors that contribute to success.
Brown believes that life is too complex and unpredictable to be solely determined by mindset, emphasizing the role of chance, circumstance, and external forces.
He cautions against the infantilizing notion that the universe is obligated to fulfill our wishes, advocating for a more grounded and realistic understanding of the world.

8. The Transformative Power of Derren Brown’s Shows:

Brown’s television shows involve creating immersive fictional narratives that challenge the participant’s perception of reality.
He uses covert psychological techniques to guide participants through transformative journeys, often pushing them into uncomfortable situations.
Brown emphasizes the importance of a genuine desire to benefit the participant, providing a transformative experience that goes beyond mere entertainment.
He acknowledges the ethical complexities of his work, ensuring that participants are carefully vetted and supported throughout the process, maintaining lasting relationships with them even after filming.

9. The “Sacrifice” Show:

Brown’s Netflix special, “Sacrifice,” involves manipulating a right-wing American man to willingly sacrifice his life for a Mexican immigrant.
The show explores themes of compassion, humanity, and breaking down sociopolitical narratives.
Brown emphasizes that the show is not a political statement but a story about the human capacity for empathy and change.
He highlights the extensive preparation and production work involved in crafting a convincing fictional world for the participant, requiring months of planning and a dedicated crew.

10. The “Push” Show:

Brown’s show, “The Push,” investigates the power of social compliance and groupthink.
He places a participant in a staged social environment, gradually increasing pressure to commit a morally questionable act.
The show explores the limits of human behavior and the potential for manipulation under extreme circumstances.
Brown argues that the show serves as a valuable emotional rehearsal for viewers, providing insights into recognizing and resisting social pressure.

11. Derren Brown’s “Apocalypse” Show:

Brown’s show “Apocalypse” involves creating a fabricated scenario where the world is about to end, using a combination of staged events and real-world manipulation.
The show’s goal is to inspire a participant to value what he has in life by taking away everything.
Brown emphasizes the transformative potential of near-death experiences, even if fictional, highlighting their ability to shift perspective and inspire change.
He discusses the immense amount of work and preparation involved in creating a convincing apocalyptic scenario, showcasing his commitment to achieving a profound impact.

12. Derren Brown’s Views on the Importance of Transcendence:

Brown argues that finding meaning in life often involves transcending our individual ego and serving something bigger than ourselves.
He sees religion as a historical example of providing a sense of transcendence, though often through practices and dogmas that obscure the original experience.
Brown emphasizes that transcendence doesn’t necessarily require spirituality, but rather a commitment to a meaningful pursuit that engages our minds and spirits.
He believes that this sense of transcendence is essential for fulfilling our human potential, guarding against the dangers of self-absorption and a lack of meaning.

13. The Role of Shamans and Indigenous Cultures:

Brown discusses the traditional role of shamans, contrasting their focus on a harmonious relationship with nature with the modern misconception of them as solely psychedelic practitioners.
He highlights the importance of recognizing the subtle ways indigenous cultures engage with the natural world, often viewing the spiritual as embodied in the everyday environment.
Brown cautions against the commercialization of shamanism and the appropriation of indigenous practices for profit, emphasizing the importance of genuine cultural respect.
He argues that exploring indigenous cultures offers valuable insights into understanding our relationship with nature and the interconnectedness of all things.

14. Derren Brown’s Views on Psychedelic Experiences:

Brown reveals that he has never experimented with psychedelics, attributing this to a sense of control and a fear of losing control.
He contrasts his perspective with that of Penn Jillette, who believes that psychedelics have already revealed all they can about the human mind.
Brown highlights the transformative potential of psychedelic experiences, recognizing their ability to provide a sense of transcendence and altered states of consciousness.
He suggests that the importance of transcendent experiences, whether achieved through psychedelics or other means, remains a vital aspect of the human experience.

15. The Power of Humility and Embracing Mystery:

Brown argues that light pollution has obscured our connection to the cosmos, robbing us of a sense of awe and humility.
He suggests that a greater awareness of the vastness of the universe inspires a sense of perspective and a recognition of our limited understanding.
Brown critiques the reliance on pseudoscience and spiritual charlatanism as a poor substitute for a genuine appreciation of the mysterious.
He emphasizes the importance of embracing the unknown, acknowledging the limits of our knowledge and finding wonder in the inexplicable.

16. Derren Brown’s Thoughts on the Nature of Death:

Brown discusses the cultural shift in how we approach death, moving away from meaningful narratives that provided comfort and perspective.
He critiques the over-reliance on the “brave battle” narrative, which can add unnecessary pressure and burden on those facing death.
Brown suggests that we should embrace the opportunity to author our own stories, finding meaning and closure in the face of mortality.
He argues that a greater acceptance of death allows us to live more fully and appreciate the preciousness of life.

17. Derren Brown’s Views on Relationships and Disillusionment:

Brown highlights the influence of our upbringing on our expectations of love and relationships.
He cautions against projecting idealized notions of romance onto our partners, recognizing the inevitable complexities of adult relationships.
Brown encourages a realistic understanding of relationships, embracing imperfections and the challenges that come with them.
He suggests that a healthy dose of disillusionment allows us to navigate the complexities of human connection with greater acceptance.

18. Derren Brown’s Perspective on the Value of Difficult Tasks:

Brown believes that embracing difficult tasks and overcoming challenges is essential for personal growth and happiness.
He suggests that seeking comfort can hinder our ability to explore our potential and experience a deeper sense of fulfillment.
Brown emphasizes the importance of embracing the unknown, relishing the challenge and the potential for transformation.
He argues that the rewards of overcoming difficulties are often more profound and enduring than those achieved through ease and comfort.

19. The Importance of Consciousness and Self-Awareness:

Brown believes that becoming more conscious of our own thoughts, feelings, and motivations is a crucial step toward personal growth.
He emphasizes the need to acknowledge and confront the aspects of ourselves that we tend to suppress or avoid, recognizing their impact on our behavior.
Brown sees consciousness as a means of breaking free from unconscious patterns that limit our potential and contribute to unhappiness.
He suggests that this ongoing process of self-discovery is a vital journey toward a more fulfilling and authentic life.

20. The Stoic Philosophy and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy:

Brown highlights the resurgence of Stoic philosophy and its influence on cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT).
He acknowledges the effectiveness of CBT in addressing anxiety and other psychological issues, seeing its roots in Stoic principles of controlling thoughts and actions.
Brown suggests that the popularity of Stoicism and CBT may be a reaction against the complexities of psychoanalysis and a yearning for simpler solutions.
He believes that embracing both Stoic wisdom and the nuanced approach of psychoanalysis offers a comprehensive understanding of the human experience.

5 Memorable Quotes:

“I’ve tried to as I’ve grown up, I’ve tried to move it into a different area and one that’s a little more resonant than just showing off.” – Derren Brown reflects on the evolution of his work, seeking meaning beyond mere spectacle.
“It’s that thing of you hear a song and you’re breaking up with someone and it’s a horrible period of your life. And then five years later, you hear the same song and it’s a beautiful memory back. It’s that that process.” – Brown explains how he utilizes emotional conditioning to trigger desired responses in his subjects.
“It’s kind of like what ultimately, you know, it’s that guy’s decision. And it’s also, I think, it’s a story about stepping out of the kind of I guess the show resonates politically, but it’s not a political show. There’s like there are political narratives we get strained by and we forget that actually it’s the dialogue between the sides that, you know, where humanity emerges and where we find truth.” – Brown discusses the humanizing element of his work, prompting viewers to move beyond divisive narratives.
“If you go to bed twice a week with your partner thinking, oh, the fuck am I doing with this person? That’s normal. Right? That’s a normal thing.” – Brown challenges idealized notions of relationships, emphasizing that imperfection is a natural part of human connection.
“I think the best we can do is is try and be conscious of that and not be constantly try reducing things to to easy packages.” – Brown advocates for embracing life’s complexities and avoiding simplistic explanations, encouraging a deeper understanding of the human experience.