JRE #1115 – Mike Baker

Joe Rogan Experience #1115 – Mike Baker Podcast Topics

This podcast features Mike Baker, a former CIA covert operations officer and current president of Diligence LLC, a global intelligence and security firm. The conversation delves into various geopolitical issues, offering Baker’s unique perspective as a veteran intelligence operative. Provocative topics include the Iranian nuclear deal, Chinese economic espionage, the confirmation hearings for Gina Haspel as CIA director, and the potential dangers of a technologically advanced world. Underlying themes explore the complexities of international relations, the role of intelligence agencies in a globalized world, and the need for a nuanced understanding of national security in a complex and interconnected world.

• The Iranian Nuclear Deal:

  • Baker argues the deal was inadequate, failing to address concerns about Iranian military sites and ballistic missile development.
  • He emphasizes the importance of verification and the need for a more robust agreement.
  • Baker contends that the Iranian regime is not moderate, pointing to their involvement in conflicts across the Middle East.
  • He suggests the United States should withdraw from the deal, seek a more comprehensive agreement, and maintain open channels of communication with Iran.

• Huawei and ZTE:

  • Baker raises concerns about the Chinese government’s aggressive pursuit of intellectual property and its use of Huawei and ZTE to gather information.
  • He argues that China’s history of economic espionage makes it essential to be wary of their products entering the US market.
  • Baker suggests that the US should be more proactive in addressing China’s actions and securing national interests.
  • He believes that the US should prevent Huawei from gaining a foothold in the American market, highlighting the potential for espionage through seemingly innocuous devices.

• Gina Haspel’s CIA Confirmation Hearings:

  • Baker expresses support for Haspel, emphasizing her extensive experience and qualifications.
  • He criticizes some Democratic senators for focusing on the CIA’s rendition and interrogation program, suggesting that it was conducted within the legal framework of the time.
  • Baker highlights the need for clear understanding of the historical context surrounding the program, arguing that values and acceptable practices can change in response to events like 9/11.
  • He questions the motives of some senators, suggesting that the confirmation process is more about political grandstanding than genuine scrutiny.

• The Importance of Intelligence Agencies:

  • Baker argues that intelligence agencies like the CIA are vital for national security, offering insights and capabilities that are often overlooked.
  • He criticizes the tendency in America to view intelligence agencies with suspicion, highlighting their critical role in protecting the country from threats.
  • Baker believes that a greater understanding of the work of intelligence agencies is crucial to appreciate their value and ensure their effectiveness.
  • He suggests that mandatory national service, even for a short period, could provide Americans with a deeper appreciation for the complexities of national security and the work of intelligence agencies.

• The Fragility of Infrastructure:

  • Baker identifies the vulnerability of American infrastructure to cyber and physical attacks as a major security concern.
  • He highlights the importance of protecting critical infrastructure like the power grid and internet networks from both foreign and domestic threats.
  • Baker acknowledges that the US is not immune to threats from adversarial nations like Russia, which has a long history of meddling in US elections and other forms of interference.
  • He emphasizes the need for a proactive approach to securing American infrastructure and safeguarding the country’s interests in a increasingly interconnected world.

• The Long Game of Espionage:

  • Baker describes the patient and methodical approach employed by both China and Russia in infiltrating American institutions and acquiring sensitive information.
  • He highlights the long-term investment these nations make in cultivating assets and infiltrating key sectors, from academia to industry.
  • Baker emphasizes the contrast between these long-term strategies and the US’s tendency to focus on shorter-term goals and election cycles.
  • He argues that a more strategic and proactive approach is needed to counter these long-term threats to national security.

• The Importance of Adversity:

  • Baker argues that a lack of adversity can lead to a distorted perception of reality and a decline in work ethic.
  • He suggests that the “participation trophy” culture prevalent in some schools can foster a sense of entitlement and a lack of resilience.
  • Baker emphasizes the importance of teaching children to embrace competition and understand the value of hard work, recognizing that life is not always about instant gratification.
  • He believes that exposing children to challenges and real-world experiences, such as working summer jobs, can develop their character and prepare them for the complexities of adulthood.

• The Impact of Technology on Children:

  • Baker expresses concerns about the unfettered access to the internet, particularly violent content, that children have today.
  • He argues that the rapid pace of technological change has outpaced our understanding of its impact on children’s developing minds.
  • Baker suggests that parents need to be vigilant in monitoring their children’s online activity and limiting exposure to harmful content.
  • He believes that society needs to have a broader conversation about the potential consequences of widespread internet access on children’s mental and emotional well-being.

• The Importance of Moderation:

  • Baker advocates for a balanced approach to diet, exercise, and health, emphasizing moderation over rigid ideologies.
  • He cautions against falling prey to dietary fads and misinformation, particularly regarding red meat, carbohydrates, and cholesterol.
  • Baker emphasizes the importance of evidence-based science and healthy habits, rather than extreme restrictions.
  • He believes that a nuanced approach to health and nutrition can promote well-being without unnecessary limitations.

• The Power of Nature and Adventure:

  • Baker expresses his love for the outdoors, highlighting the beauty and serenity of fishing, hunting, and exploring nature.
  • He emphasizes the importance of disconnecting from the digital world and experiencing the natural world firsthand.
  • Baker shares his experiences in hunting elk in Hawaii and fishing for halibut in Alaska, illustrating the thrill of the hunt and the beauty of wild landscapes.
  • He encourages listeners to seek out outdoor experiences, emphasizing the restorative power of nature.

• The Evolution of Technology:

  • Baker reflects on the rapid evolution of technology from the early days of car phones and pay phones to today’s smartphones and wireless devices.
  • He shares anecdotes about his own experiences with early technology and the challenges of navigating a rapidly changing landscape.
  • Baker acknowledges the transformative power of technology while also highlighting its potential drawbacks, particularly in terms of information overload and access to harmful content.
  • He underscores the importance of understanding the history of technology and its impact on society.

• The Importance of Idaho:

  • Baker extols the virtues of Idaho, highlighting its natural beauty, outdoor recreation opportunities, and friendly people.
  • He shares his own experiences in Idaho, including fishing, skiing, and enjoying the local culture.
  • Baker encourages listeners to consider visiting Idaho, emphasizing its unique charm and abundance of outdoor activities.
  • He shares his excitement for his upcoming stand-up comedy performance in Boise, Idaho.

Memorable Quotes:

• “I don’t wanna keep you know, I don’t wanna, you know, demonize an entire nation. Right. Exactly. Right. But they have proven themselves enormously adapted doing this.” – Baker acknowledges the need for nuance when discussing national security issues, highlighting China’s proven track record of economic espionage.
• “We better hope we do it and we better hope we do it well. Because it’s a very aggressive world out there.” – Baker underscores the need for vigilance and a strong national defense in a world full of complex and challenging geopolitics.
• “The anxiety. Attacks and all wars get a somehow another stop because you eat vegan. Right. That’s fucking crazy.” – Baker humorously criticizes the unrealistic view of some individuals who believe that adopting a vegan lifestyle can prevent war or violence.
• “The only collusion we’ve really proven up to this point. Yeah. Isn’t the antsy colluding to keep burning down?” – Baker expresses frustration with the lack of accountability for potential collusion between the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign during the 2016 election, pointing to the alleged deletion of emails and the rigging of primaries.
• “You know, I mean, you you could drone on all you want about Democratic elections, but we all know that’s bullshit. I mean, he fucking kales anybody over there that’s a legitimate threat.” – Baker criticizes the often-cited notion of democratic elections in Russia, highlighting Vladimir Putin’s iron-fisted control and his willingness to eliminate perceived threats.