JRE #1006 - Jordan Peterson & Bret Weinstein

9/1/2017

#1006 – Jordan Peterson & Bret Weinstein

This podcast features a captivating conversation between renowned psychologist Jordan Peterson and evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein. They delve into the complexities of social and political turmoil, exploring the underlying evolutionary and psychological forces that shape human behavior. Their discussions, often provocative and controversial, examine the dangers of ideological extremism, the role of individual responsibility in a chaotic world, and the enduring power of traditional wisdom.

1. The Evergreen State College Controversy:

Bret Weinstein became the center of a heated controversy at Evergreen State College after he objected to a planned “Day of Absence” event, which encouraged students of color to leave campus.
The event was interpreted by many as an act of social justice, but Weinstein saw it as a form of segregation and a harmful act of identity politics.
The controversy escalated into protests, threats of violence, and ultimately, Weinstein’s resignation from the college.
This incident served as a springboard for Weinstein to further examine the dangers of ideological extremism, particularly within the context of higher education.

2. The Evolutionary Roots of Tribalism:

Weinstein argues that the tendency towards tribalism, which manifests in modern society as political polarization and identity politics, has an evolutionary basis.
He suggests that humans evolved to be wary of outsiders due to the potential for disease transmission and conflict, resulting in an innate fear of the “other”.
This fear, while once adaptive, can be manipulated in modern society, leading to dangerous divisions and the dehumanization of opposing groups.
Weinstein emphasizes the importance of recognizing this biological tendency while simultaneously working to overcome it through reasoned discourse and a focus on shared values.

3. The Disgust Factor in Authoritarianism:

Peterson shares research that links a heightened sense of disgust to authoritarian political beliefs, arguing that individuals with a higher disgust sensitivity are more likely to lean conservative or even fascist.
He suggests that this connection stems from an evolutionary mechanism that helps protect individuals from disease, which often manifests as a fear of the unfamiliar or different.
Peterson cautions against dismissing such beliefs as simply “crazy” and instead calls for a deeper understanding of the psychological and biological underpinnings of such views.
His argument highlights the need for empathy and understanding, even when dealing with individuals who hold seemingly abhorrent beliefs.

4. The Perils of Social Constructionism:

Peterson and Weinstein both express concerns about the rise of social constructionism, particularly its impact on the understanding of human identity and biology.
They argue that denying the biological basis of human nature, including differences in gender and sexuality, can lead to harmful consequences, including the suppression of scientific inquiry and the erosion of objective truth.
They emphasize the importance of acknowledging biological realities while simultaneously recognizing the capacity for human agency and personal responsibility.
Their discussion highlights the delicate balance between respecting individual choice and upholding the integrity of scientific truth.

5. The Tyranny of the Collective:

Peterson and Weinstein argue that the pursuit of ideological purity and the suppression of dissent, often seen in both the left-wing and right-wing political spheres, ultimately lead to a tyranny of the collective.
They believe that true societal progress depends on the freedom of individuals to think critically, challenge established norms, and pursue their own unique visions.
This emphasis on individual autonomy stands in stark contrast to the collectivist ideologies that often drive political movements, highlighting the dangers of surrendering individual agency to the dictates of a group.
They call for a revitalization of individual responsibility, arguing that a society composed of well-developed individuals is the best defense against the tyranny of both biology and ideology.

6. The Paradox of Prosperity:

Weinstein proposes that prosperity, while seemingly desirable, can inadvertently lead to a resurgence of tribalism and societal instability.
He suggests that periods of prolonged prosperity often breed complacency and a sense of entitlement, leaving individuals vulnerable to appeals to fear and resentment.
This phenomenon can explain the rise of right-wing populism and extremism in countries experiencing economic growth and relative peace.
Weinstein emphasizes the importance of maintaining a sense of vigilance, recognizing the cyclical nature of history and the ever-present potential for societal upheaval.

7. The Power of Metaphorical Truth:

Weinstein delves into the concept of metaphorical truth, arguing that certain ideas, while not literally true, can still be beneficial if they motivate individuals to act in a way that leads to positive outcomes.
He suggests that many of the truths contained in religious traditions fall into this category, serving as potent metaphors that guide behavior and shape moral values.
While acknowledging the value of such metaphorical truths, Weinstein cautions against assuming their inherent up-to-dateness or moral righteousness, as they may have evolved in a different context and require reinterpretation in the face of new challenges.
His argument underscores the importance of critical thinking, even when dealing with cherished traditions, and the need to adapt ancient wisdom to the realities of the modern world.

8. The Limits of Science and the Importance of Wisdom:

Peterson and Weinstein discuss the limitations of scientific knowledge, arguing that it is not always sufficient to guide human behavior or solve complex societal problems.
They emphasize the importance of wisdom, which they define as a combination of knowledge, experience, and ethical judgement, as a crucial complement to scientific inquiry.
This distinction highlights the need for a holistic approach to decision-making, incorporating both rational analysis and the insights gained from traditions and lived experience.
Their discussion challenges the notion that science alone holds the key to human progress, suggesting that wisdom and intuition play a vital role in navigating the complexities of the human condition.

9. The Power of Storytelling:

Both Peterson and Weinstein recognize the enduring power of stories in shaping human understanding and morality.
Peterson argues that the great myths and stories of the past contain a timeless wisdom, offering insights into the human condition that transcend specific historical contexts.
He emphasizes the importance of re-interpreting these stories for modern audiences, extracting the valuable lessons they contain and adapting them to the challenges of the present day.
This emphasis on storytelling underscores the vital role that culture and narrative play in shaping human values and guiding behavior, even in a technologically driven world.

10. The Pareto Distribution and the Inequality Problem:

Peterson and Weinstein explore the Pareto distribution, a mathematical concept that describes the tendency for wealth and success to be concentrated in the hands of a small percentage of individuals.
They acknowledge the inherent inequality that arises from this natural phenomenon, but argue that it is not necessarily a sign of a corrupt or unjust system.
They highlight the need for policies that mitigate the negative consequences of inequality, such as poverty and social instability, while also preserving the mechanisms of innovation and economic growth that drive progress.
Their discussion challenges simplistic solutions to inequality, such as universal basic income, suggesting that addressing the underlying issues of human nature and social structure is essential for true progress.

11. The Role of the University:

Peterson and Weinstein express deep concern about the ideological bias and the growing dominance of the left in academia, particularly in the humanities and social sciences.
They argue that the university has become increasingly hostile to diverse viewpoints, suppressing dissenting voices and reinforcing a narrow, often politically motivated, worldview.
They suggest that this trend has contributed to the polarization of society, creating an environment where open and critical dialogue is stifled.
Their discussion highlights the importance of academic freedom and the need to protect intellectual diversity in order to ensure the continued vitality of higher education.

12. The Ethics of the Market:

Peterson and Weinstein grapple with the question of whether the free market can be truly ethical, given the inherent incentives to prioritize profit over morality.
They acknowledge the powerful role that markets play in driving innovation and economic growth but also recognize the dangers of unfettered capitalism, including the potential for corruption and exploitation.
They advocate for a balance between regulation and freedom, recognizing the need for both market efficiency and ethical constraints.
Their discussion highlights the complexities of navigating the relationship between economics and ethics, a fundamental issue facing modern societies.

13. The Threat of Censorship:

Peterson and Weinstein both raise concerns about the growing trend of censorship, particularly in the realm of online platforms like Google and YouTube.
They argue that algorithmic censorship can stifle free speech, suppress diverse perspectives, and ultimately hinder the advancement of knowledge and understanding.
They highlight the dangers of allowing private corporations to control the flow of information, emphasizing the importance of preserving open and uncensored dialogue.
Their discussion underscores the need for a robust public debate about the ethics and implications of censorship in the digital age.

14. The Importance of Tough Questions:

Weinstein discusses the role of journalists in holding power to account, emphasizing the importance of asking difficult and uncomfortable questions, even when confronting individuals or groups who hold abhorrent views.
He criticizes journalists who fail to adequately challenge the narratives presented by extremists, suggesting that such passivity can inadvertently legitimize harmful ideologies.
He argues that effective journalism requires a commitment to critical inquiry, a willingness to confront uncomfortable truths, and a recognition of the power of language to shape public perception.
His discussion highlights the critical role of the media in shaping public discourse and the importance of journalistic ethics in a world facing increasingly complex challenges.

15. The Danger of Ideological Warfare:

Peterson and Weinstein argue that the current political landscape is characterized by an increasingly dangerous form of ideological warfare, where individuals on both the left and right engage in increasingly extreme and uncompromising positions.
They see this trend as rooted in a combination of factors, including the rise of identity politics, the erosion of common ground, and the influence of social media.
They warn of the potential for this ideological conflict to escalate into violence, emphasizing the need for a return to reason, compassion, and a shared commitment to dialogue.
Their discussion underscores the urgency of finding a path toward reconciliation and understanding in a world increasingly divided by political and cultural differences.

16. The Case of Adolf Hitler:

Peterson and Weinstein revisit the case of Adolf Hitler, exploring the complex and troubling question of how a seemingly rational man could commit such horrific atrocities.
While acknowledging Hitler’s monstrous deeds, Weinstein argues that his actions were not entirely irrational, as he sought to secure resources and power for his perceived “superior” race.
Peterson agrees that Hitler’s actions were motivated by a combination of ideology and biological impulses, highlighting the dangers of underestimating the potential for evil even in a seemingly civilized society.
Their discussion serves as a cautionary tale, urging listeners to be vigilant against the rise of extremism and the dangers of dehumanizing those who are different.

17. The Role of Personal Responsibility:

Both Peterson and Weinstein stress the importance of personal responsibility as a means of navigating a chaotic and increasingly polarized world.
They believe that individuals have the power to resist the pressures of ideology and tribalism by taking ownership of their thoughts, actions, and choices.
This emphasis on personal responsibility stands in stark contrast to the collectivist ideologies that often dominate political discourse, highlighting the importance of individual agency and self-improvement.
Their discussion underscores the need for individuals to develop a sense of self-awareness, moral clarity, and a commitment to personal growth as a pathway towards a more just and equitable society.

Memorable Quotes:

“I think there’s something actually dangerous that we dismiss somebody like Hitler as crazy before we understand actually what they’re up to.”
“Tyranny is the end game of prosperity.”
“The only way we can figure that out is to have the kind of conversations that we’re having right now.”
“The Nazi is us.”
“The well-developed individual is the antidote to the tyranny of society and biology.”