1/27/2017
Joe Rogan Podcast #907 – Mike Baker: Topics and Summary
This podcast features Mike Baker, a former CIA covert operations officer, and current president of Diligence LLC, a global intelligence and security firm. The conversation covers a wide range of topics, from Baker’s personal life in Idaho to the complex geopolitical landscape and the current state of US intelligence. The podcast delves into controversial and provocative topics including public land policy, the Trump administration’s relationship with the intelligence community, and Russia’s global influence. Underlying themes explore the importance of critical thinking, the need for balance between security and liberty, and the challenges of navigating a rapidly changing world.
Major Topics:
- **Idaho as a Sanctuary:**
* Baker describes the beauty of Idaho, highlighting its natural landscapes, outdoor activities, and unique blend of rural and urban life.
* He underscores Idaho’s strong conservation efforts, emphasizing the importance of public lands and the role of hunting and fishing in maintaining them.
* Baker expresses concern over proposed legislation to sell off public lands, arguing for its preservation as a national treasure.
* The discussion highlights the tension between attracting tourism and maintaining the unspoiled character of Idaho’s wild places. - **Trump vs. Intelligence Community:**
* Baker examines the public rift between President Trump and the US intelligence community, arguing it was largely self-inflicted due to Trump’s initial skepticism of Russian meddling in the 2016 election.
* He debunks the notion that Russia’s involvement was a surprise, emphasizing their long history of interfering in US politics.
* Baker clarifies the nature of Russian meddling, distinguishing between hacking into election systems and disseminating compromising information.
* He discusses the FBI and CIA’s contrasting perspectives on Russian motivation, highlighting the challenges of proving intent in intelligence work. - **The “Dossier” and the Trump Narrative:**
* Baker addresses the controversial “dossier” alleging compromising information about President Trump, dismissing it as a politically motivated hatchet job.
* He critiques the media’s willingness to publish unsubstantiated rumors, emphasizing the need for journalistic integrity.
* Baker emphasizes the prevalence of dubious actors in the world of political opposition research, suggesting the “dossier” is not an isolated incident.
* The discussion highlights the impact of misinformation and the difficulty of discerning truth in a polarized political climate. - **The Role of US Intelligence in a Changing World:**
* Baker provides insights into the inner workings of the US intelligence community, explaining the differences between law enforcement and intelligence operations.
* He argues that the US should maintain its position as a leading power, acknowledging the need for active engagement in a chaotic world.
* Baker discusses the challenges of maintaining alliances and preventing the spread of extremism in a world increasingly dominated by self-interest.
* He underscores the importance of robust intelligence gathering, particularly in the face of growing cyber threats. - **The “Lone Wolf” Threat and the Importance of Community:**
* Baker addresses the difficulty of preventing lone wolf attacks, emphasizing the role of community engagement in identifying potential threats.
* He highlights the importance of building trust and communication between law enforcement and minority communities, particularly Muslim communities.
* Baker criticizes the tendency to label anyone critical of Islam as Islamophobic, arguing for open dialogue and understanding.
* The discussion underscores the need for a nuanced approach to combating terrorism, acknowledging the complexities of societal divisions and the role of individual responsibility. - **The Uncertain Middle East and the US’s Role:**
* Baker analyzes the shifting geopolitical landscape in the Middle East, highlighting the increasing influence of Iran and Russia.
* He criticizes the Obama administration’s policy of withdrawing from the region, arguing it created a power vacuum that enabled extremism.
* Baker expresses concern about the growing instability in the Middle East, emphasizing the threat it poses to Israel and the region’s security.
* He argues that the US must reaffirm its commitment to its allies and act decisively to counter threats, even if it means taking a more active role in the region. - **The Rise of China and the Global Power Shift:**
* Baker examines the growing economic and military power of China, acknowledging its potential to challenge US dominance.
* He expresses skepticism about China’s economic sustainability, highlighting internal problems and the risk of a potential slowdown.
* Baker emphasizes the importance of maintaining US military superiority, particularly in the face of a potential arms race.
* He underscores the interconnectedness of the global economy and the potential consequences of a Chinese economic crisis. - **The Importance of Critical Thinking and Balance:**
* Baker encourages listeners to adopt a critical lens when consuming information, recognizing the prevalence of misinformation and partisan narratives.
* He argues for a balanced approach to issues of security and liberty, acknowledging the need to strike a delicate balance between protecting citizens and preserving freedoms.
* Baker emphasizes the importance of understanding the complexities of global affairs, avoiding simplistic explanations and recognizing the influence of self-interest in international relations.
* He underscores the need for responsible leadership and informed decision-making in navigating a challenging world. - **The Need for a More Pragmatic Foreign Policy:**
* Baker criticizes the tendency of the US to apologize for acting in its own self-interest, arguing that all nations prioritize their own interests.
* He advocates for a more pragmatic foreign policy based on clear principles and realistic expectations.
* Baker emphasizes the importance of strengthening alliances and building relationships with countries that share US interests.
* He cautions against idealistic notions of global cooperation, recognizing the complexities of international politics and the prevalence of self-interest. - **The Trump Administration: Hope or Hype?**
* Baker acknowledges the potential for the Trump administration to surprise people, particularly with its focus on infrastructure development.
* He points to the positive aspects of the administration’s approach, including its openness to diverse voices and its commitment to reforming the intelligence community.
* Baker acknowledges the possibility of a more effective foreign policy, but remains cautious about Trump’s unpredictable nature.
* He underscores the importance of holding the administration accountable while also recognizing its potential for positive change. - **The Future of the World and the Role of Leadership:**
* Baker expresses concern about the potential for catastrophic events, particularly those involving the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
* He highlights the importance of responsible leadership, diplomatic engagement, and open communication channels in preventing global conflicts.
* Baker emphasizes the importance of recognizing the interconnectedness of the world, acknowledging that no nation can operate in isolation.
* He concludes with a call for a more balanced and nuanced approach to international affairs, recognizing the complexities of global challenges.
5 Memorable Quotes:
- “We can’t let them sell it. Anybody wants to, like, you know, give a kick in the ass to hunting, I don’t understand that either.” – Baker passionately defends public lands and the role of hunting in conservation.
- “The narrative was that they influenced the election. Well, no. They were meddling, but they weren’t hacking into election systems.” – Baker clarifies the nature of Russian meddling, separating cyberattacks from information dissemination.
- “There are some bad countries out there. Not bad people, but countries that are run by dictators. Countries that are run by extremely ruthless people, and a lot of them have access to some significant military power.” – Baker emphasizes the need for strong US leadership in a dangerous world.
- “You gotta be able to say there was good and there’s bad, you know. And that’s where I’m worried about with the new president is that I’d like to think that all those supporters aren’t just gonna say, yeah, everything he does is good, that you still gotta.” – Baker highlights the importance of critical thinking and avoiding blind allegiance to any leader.
- “It would be nice if we didn’t do terrible things. Yes, it would be. It’ll be nice if there’s weren’t places in the world that were horrific right now. All I could think about, so what would then what would I do for a living?” – Baker reflects on the moral complexities of global politics and the challenges of achieving peace.