JRE #628 – Garry Tonon & Eddie Bravo

This podcast dives into the world of Jiu-Jitsu, specifically focusing on the leg lock game and its evolution. Joe Rogan, joined by Jiu-Jitsu champions Garry Tonon and Eddie Bravo, explore controversial topics like the use of performance-enhancing drugs in the sport, the effectiveness of leg locks in MMA, and the cultural influence of violence in hip-hop. Underlying themes revolve around the importance of constant innovation and adaptation in martial arts, the inherent risk and reward associated with combat sports, and the evolving nature of the “gentle art” of Jiu-Jitsu.

1. The Brutal Reality of Early Martial Arts:

• Rogan, Bravo, and Tonon analyze a historical video of a pro wrestling match that turns into a brutal, real-life fight.
• The video highlights the violent nature of early martial arts, highlighting the use of strikes and kicks, including headkicks, soccer kicks, and open hand slaps.
• The fight culminates in a violent knockout, prompting speculation about the fighters’ motivations and the possible consequences of the altercation.
• The discussion delves into the legend surrounding the fight, claiming that the defeated wrestler was murdered due to the fight’s outcome.

2. The Evolution of the Leg Lock Game:

• Tonon, known for his mastery of leg locks, discusses the innovations he and Eddie Bravo have brought to the leg lock game.
• The podcast highlights the significant shift in Jiu-Jitsu towards leg locks, contrasting with traditional emphasis on guard passing and submissions from the back.
• Tonon emphasizes the importance of studying and mastering leg locks, arguing that they have become a crucial aspect of the modern Jiu-Jitsu game.
• The discussion delves into the debate about the effectiveness of leg locks in MMA, particularly the risks and potential for injury compared to traditional submissions.

3. The Cultural Influence of Violence in Hip-Hop:

• Rogan, Bravo, and Tonon analyze a video of Trinidad James, a rapper known for his lavish lifestyle and aggressive persona.
• The discussion delves into the connection between hip-hop culture and violence, highlighting the potential influence of music on behavior.
• The podcast explores the evolution of hip-hop music, contrasting the early, more theatrical approach of NWA with the more realistic and often violent depictions of contemporary artists.
• The discussion raises questions about the line between art and reality, and the potential for music to glorify or perpetuate violence.

4. The Controversial Nature of Generalizations:

• The podcast tackles the complexities of racial stereotypes, with Rogan and Bravo discussing the dangers of generalizing about entire groups of people.
• The discussion highlights the irony of people using the phrase “I’m not racist, but…” to justify racist statements.
• Rogan and Bravo analyze examples of racist tweets, revealing how seemingly harmless generalizations can lead to harmful biases and discrimination.
• The podcast highlights the importance of acknowledging and challenging biases, even when they are presented as jokes or observations.

5. The Role of Assholes in Attracting Women:

• Rogan, Bravo, and Tonon explore the seemingly counterintuitive phenomenon of “assholes” attracting women, citing a scientific study that found men with scowling expressions to be more attractive.
• The discussion delves into the evolutionary roots of this phenomenon, arguing that it stems from an ancient desire for protection and security.
• The podcast explores the complexities of female attraction, acknowledging the allure of confidence and aggression, while recognizing the potential for these traits to become toxic in long-term relationships.
• Rogan and Bravo contemplate the potential for this phenomenon to be a result of lingering evolutionary instincts, highlighting how our prehistoric past can still influence our present behavior.

6. The Enigma of John Danaher:

• Rogan, Bravo, and Tonon discuss John Danaher, a renowned Jiu-Jitsu coach and mentor, known for his unconventional teaching methods and unique perspectives.
• The podcast highlights Danaher’s influence on Tonon and Bravo’s Jiu-Jitsu careers, specifically his emphasis on leg locks.
• Danaher’s unorthodox philosophy on marriage is discussed, highlighting his unconventional views on personal relationships.
• The podcast acknowledges Danaher’s enigmatic nature, emphasizing the mystery surrounding his personal life and the depth of his knowledge in Jiu-Jitsu.

7. The Future of Jiu-Jitsu:

• Rogan, Bravo, and Tonon discuss the potential for Jiu-Jitsu to become a major spectator sport, highlighting the growing popularity and evolution of the sport.
• The podcast explores the need for innovative formats to appeal to a wider audience, including tournaments and events that emphasize submissions over points.
• Rogan and Bravo discuss the challenges facing Jiu-Jitsu in gaining mainstream recognition, particularly the perception of the sport as being slow and boring.
• The podcast acknowledges the importance of promoting exciting matches and showcasing the best athletes, believing that Jiu-Jitsu can become a popular sport if it caters to the desires of its potential audience.

8. The Importance of Athleticism in Jiu-Jitsu:

• Tonon emphasizes the importance of athleticism in Jiu-Jitsu, arguing that it is a crucial factor in achieving success in the sport.
• The podcast highlights the rise of athletes from non-traditional backgrounds, like breakdancing, who have achieved significant success in Jiu-Jitsu.
• Tonon discusses the rapid rise of athletes like Geo Martinez, a breakdancer turned Jiu-Jitsu black belt, highlighting how athleticism can translate to the mat.
• The podcast acknowledges that athleticism alone is not enough to become a world-class Jiu-Jitsu practitioner, but it provides a crucial foundation for mastering the sport.

9. The Controversial Debate Over Performance-Enhancing Drugs:

• Rogan, Bravo, and Tonon discuss the prevalence of performance-enhancing drugs in Jiu-Jitsu, acknowledging the lack of stringent testing and the potential for athletes to gain an unfair advantage.
• The podcast explores the ethical complexities of PED use in martial arts, highlighting the potential risks to athletes’ health and the impact on the integrity of the sport.
• The discussion touches on the difficulties of enforcing PED bans in combat sports, noting the constant advancements in drug development and detection methods.
• Rogan, Bravo, and Tonon acknowledge the need for stricter testing and more effective enforcement to ensure a level playing field for all athletes.

10. The The Cheeseburger Debate:

• Tonon discusses his own unconventional diet, which includes a significant amount of fast food, despite his high level of athletic performance.
• The podcast highlights the debate surrounding the effectiveness of various diets for athletes, arguing that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to nutrition.
• Tonon acknowledges the importance of a healthy diet for long-term health, but he believes that it is not a determining factor in short-term athletic success.
• The podcast explores the cultural obsession with diet and nutrition, often leading to unrealistic expectations and a sense of shame surrounding eating habits.

11. The The Importance of Skin Health:

• Rogan, Bravo, and Tonon discuss the importance of skin health for Jiu-Jitsu practitioners, particularly the risks associated with staph infections.
• The podcast explores the importance of hygiene and preventative measures, as well as the dangers of relying on natural remedies for serious medical conditions.
• The discussion highlights the potential for staph infections to be spread through contact with infected individuals or contaminated surfaces, emphasizing the importance of proper sanitation in training environments.
• The podcast acknowledges the role of education and awareness in preventing the spread of infectious diseases, encouraging listeners to prioritize their health and seek professional medical advice when necessary.

12. The The Power of Cannabis Oil:

• Rogan, Bravo, and Tonon discuss the use of cannabis oil for medicinal purposes, specifically its potential benefits for cancer patients.
• The podcast shares a personal anecdote about a friend’s mother who experienced a reduction in tumor size after using cannabis oil.
• The discussion highlights the growing acceptance of cannabis oil as a potential treatment for various ailments, emphasizing the need for further research and open-minded discussion about its medicinal properties.
• The podcast acknowledges the evolving nature of medical science and the importance of challenging conventional wisdom, particularly regarding alternative and holistic approaches to healthcare.

13. The The Controversy of Gay Jiu-Jitsu:

• Rogan, Bravo, and Tonon discuss the potential for Jiu-Jitsu to be a more inclusive sport for the LGBTQ community, with Rogan suggesting that gay men might find the physical intimacy of the sport appealing.
• The discussion delves into the complexities of sexuality and the potential for misconceptions and biases within the sport.
• Rogan and Bravo acknowledge the historical stigma associated with gay athletes and the need for greater acceptance and representation.
• The podcast explores the evolving nature of society and the potential for Jiu-Jitsu to become a more welcoming and inclusive space for all individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation.

14. The The Importance of Urgency:

• Rogan and Bravo discuss the importance of urgency and aggression in Jiu-Jitsu, emphasizing the need for fighters to constantly push forward and seek submissions.
• The podcast highlights the format of the Eddie Bravo Invitational (EBI), which emphasizes urgency by awarding the entire prize to the tournament winner, fostering a more exciting and aggressive style of fighting.
• Rogan and Bravo acknowledge the need for Jiu-Jitsu to prioritize exciting matches and showcase the skills of its athletes, believing that it can become a more popular sport if it fosters a more dynamic and engaging style of competition.
• The podcast highlights the importance of creating a format that rewards aggression and encourages athletes to take risks, ultimately leading to a more entertaining and engaging spectacle for spectators.

5 Memorable Quotes:

• “This is so cool, that shit like this exists, and we can watch some, like, historical moments in martial arts. This is a historical moment.” – Rogan, expressing his excitement about viewing a rare and brutal historical video of a Jiu-Jitsu fight.
• “There’s a difference between an African American and a n-word.” – Rogan, highlighting the harmful nature of using racial slurs and the importance of sensitivity and respect in language.
• “I think we’re still stuck with the echoes of some ancient DNA. I think we still have, for whatever reason, we still have all the instincts that people had back when you had to worry about, like, maroding hordes coming over the top of the hill with swords and knives.” – Rogan, theorizing about the potential for ancient instincts to influence modern behavior, particularly in relation to attraction and aggression.
• “He’s been working since he was, like, a little kid. It’s one of the reasons why he’s so fucking strong.” – Rogan, discussing the background of Usimar “Usmara” Pahares, a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt known for his exceptional strength and leg lock skills.
• “The point being, like, it’s not unintelligent to have a John Wayne Parr skill set. No. There’s there’s definitely an intelligent way to you striking, obviously.” – Rogan, acknowledging the complexity and skill involved in striking, even though it might appear to be a more primitive form of combat.