JRE #1253 – Ioan Grillo

This podcast dives into the world of Ioan Grillo, a journalist who has spent 18 years reporting on the drug war in Mexico. He offers a raw and unflinching look at the cartel’s operations, the rampant corruption within Mexican society, and the ongoing violence that plagues the country. Grillo’s insights reveal the complex interplay of politics, economics, and human nature in shaping this devastating conflict.

Major Topics:

• Ioan Grillo’s Journey into Narco Journalism:
  • Grillo arrived in Mexico in 2000 with a romantic vision of Latin America, but quickly realized the drug war was a very different reality.
  • His initial interest stemmed from his personal experiences with drug abuse in the UK, which fueled his curiosity about the cartel’s impact.
  • He began his career covering crime for an English-language newspaper, and his focus quickly shifted to the drug trade.
  • His early work, including a court martial of generals for drug trafficking, exposed the deep-rooted corruption within the Mexican government.
• The Rampant Corruption and State Capture:
  • Grillo highlights the pervasive corruption that permeates all levels of Mexican society, from the police to the military and political circles.
  • He shares chilling stories of police officers who are not only turning a blind eye to cartel activity but also actively participating in it, including training young recruits in violence.
  • This deep-seated corruption creates a system where citizens are left with no real protection from the cartels, as law enforcement often operates with the cartel’s blessing.
  • The podcast underscores the urgency for addressing this fundamental issue of state capture, as it lies at the heart of the drug war’s persistence.
• The Escalation of Violence and the Human Cost:
  • Grillo details the escalating violence in Mexico, which began in 2004 with a turf war in Nueva Laredo and intensified dramatically after President Felipe Calderon declared a military crackdown in 2006.
  • He shares heartbreaking stories of innocent victims caught in the crossfire, highlighting the devastating impact on families and communities.
  • Grillo recounts the emergence of gruesome tactics like beheading, inspired by Al Qaeda, which became a tool of public terror.
  • He emphasizes the sheer scale of the violence, pointing to the discovery of mass graves with hundreds of bodies, illustrating the chilling reality of life in Mexico.
• The Economics of the Drug War:
  • The podcast explores the vast profits generated by the drug trade, fueled by the insatiable demand for illegal substances in the United States.
  • Grillo argues that the illegalization of drugs has created a lucrative black market, empowering the cartels with billions of dollars in revenue each year.
  • The cartels have diversified their operations beyond drugs, engaging in activities like oil theft, further bolstering their economic power and influence.
  • The podcast underscores the importance of drug policy reform as a crucial step in dismantling the financial foundation of the cartels.
• The Role of Social Work in Combating Violence:
  • Grillo emphasizes the importance of addressing the root causes of violence, particularly the social and economic factors that contribute to youth recruitment into the cartels.
  • He shares stories of assassins who were abandoned as children, highlighting the role of neglect and trauma in shaping their destinies.
  • Grillo advocates for community-based social work programs that can intervene early and offer support and alternatives to children at risk of being drawn into the cartel’s grip.
  • The podcast underscores the need for long-term investment in social programs to create a more just and equitable society, one that can break the cycle of violence.
• The Role of the Police:
  • Grillo acknowledges the inherent challenges faced by police officers, particularly in countries plagued by corruption and violence.
  • He argues that police officers in Mexico often become vulnerable to corruption due to low salaries, making them susceptible to bribes from cartels.
  • Grillo suggests that building a more effective police force requires not only addressing systemic corruption but also providing adequate training, resources, and support to officers.
  • The podcast emphasizes the importance of creating a police force that truly serves the community, ensuring its safety and protection.
• The Impact of the US-Mexico Border:
  • The podcast explores the role of the US-Mexico border in fueling the drug war, highlighting the flow of drugs and firearms across the border.
  • Grillo discusses the effectiveness of border security measures, arguing that they haven’t stopped the flow of drugs and have even made the trade more lucrative, further enriching the cartels.
  • He points to the irony of the US’s role in the drug war, with its demand for illegal drugs creating a market that is virtually impossible to eradicate.
  • The podcast underscores the interconnectedness of the US and Mexico, highlighting the need for collaborative solutions to address the drug war’s root causes.
• The Rise of Cartel Fragmentation:
  • Grillo discusses the ongoing fragmentation of cartels, with the capture of major leaders leading to power struggles and the emergence of smaller, more volatile factions.
  • This fragmentation is contributing to the rise in violence, as rival groups compete for control of territories and resources.
  • Grillo highlights the increasing sophistication and ruthlessness of these smaller factions, many led by younger, less experienced individuals.
  • The podcast suggests that the fragmentation of cartels is a complex and dangerous phenomenon that makes the drug war even more difficult to control.
• The Migrant Caravan:
  • Grillo provides a firsthand account of the migrant caravan that traveled through Mexico in 2018, highlighting the desperate conditions that drove Central Americans to flee their home countries.
  • He discusses the caravan’s journey, including the dangerous challenges they faced, including kidnapping and violence.
  • The podcast examines the complex political and social factors that contributed to the caravan’s formation, including poverty, violence, and corruption.
  • Grillo’s account offers a humanizing perspective on the plight of migrants, underscoring the need for compassion and understanding in addressing this complex issue.
• The Role of Guns in the Drug War:
  • The podcast examines the flow of firearms from the US to Mexico, highlighting the role of gun shows and the “gun show loophole” in facilitating the trade.
  • Grillo discusses the devastating impact of guns on the drug war, noting the ease with which criminals can obtain weapons and the escalating use of high-powered firearms by cartels.
  • He advocates for stricter gun control measures, including a searchable database of gun ownership, as a step towards reducing the flow of firearms into Mexico.
  • The podcast explores the complex debate surrounding gun control, with Grillo arguing that legal and responsible gun ownership can coexist with measures to prevent the proliferation of firearms into the hands of criminals.
• The Case of El Chapo:
  • The podcast examines the trial of Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman, offering insights into the complexity of his case and the role of corruption in the US legal system.
  • Grillo discusses the use of cooperating witnesses, many with questionable pasts, in the prosecution of El Chapo, raising ethical questions about the pursuit of justice.
  • The podcast explores the contradictions of El Chapo’s persona, highlighting the disparity between his image as a ruthless drug lord and the stories of his family and community.
  • Grillo’s account provides a nuanced look at El Chapo’s life and legacy, acknowledging both the immense harm he caused and the complexities of his rise to power.
• Mexico’s Culture and Society:
  • Grillo reflects on Mexico’s culture and society, highlighting the resilience and spirit of the Mexican people, despite the violence and hardships they face.
  • He contrasts the cultural values of Mexico with those of the United States, arguing that Mexico’s focus on community and human connection contributes to a different sense of happiness and well-being.
  • The podcast acknowledges the complexities of Mexican society, recognizing the challenges of poverty and corruption but also celebrating the richness of its culture and traditions.
  • Grillo’s reflections offer a balanced and insightful perspective on Mexico, encouraging listeners to appreciate the country’s vibrant culture and the strength of its people.

Memorable Quotes:

• “Corruption even isn’t a strong enough word for it. Sometimes I call it state capture.” – This quote captures the severity of the corruption in Mexico, highlighting how the cartel has infiltrated the government at all levels.
• “You’re not gonna stop people from doing drugs. This is an illogical, ridiculous approach.” – Grillo makes a strong case for drug policy reform, arguing that criminalization has fueled the cartel’s power and violence.
• “It’s so insane that this is right next door to America, and there’s so little effort put on doing something about it.” – This quote underscores the urgent need for the US to address the drug war in Mexico, as the violence spills over into the US and destabilizes the region.
• “It’s not what you say every day. This happens, but there’s also just a normality that could just be like you’re outside here in in LA and normal people living normal lives around this as well.” – Grillo highlights the strange juxtaposition of violence and normalcy in Mexico, where people try to live their lives amidst the chaos.
• “They’re they’re people who they understand their world. They understand it from their environment. To control and become masters of their environment, to become kind of powerful in in that place.” – This quote sheds light on the motivations of cartel leaders, who often operate within a limited worldview, seeking power and control over their territories.