18-Mar-19
This episode of Joe Rogan’s podcast delves deep into the experiences of Ben Anderson, a war journalist who has witnessed some of the most harrowing events of our time. Anderson’s journey reveals the psychological toll of constant exposure to violence and the challenges of finding meaning in a world consumed by information overload.
Provocative topics like the nature of war journalism, the impact of PTSD, the dangers of misinformation, and the growing disconnect between reality and perception are explored. Underlying themes touch on the fragility of truth, the importance of human connection, and the search for purpose in a complex and often disheartening world.
Major Topics:
1. The Psychological Impact of War Journalism: Anderson shares his experience of being caught in a Taliban ambush, highlighting the disconnect he felt between the reality of the situation and his own perception due to focusing on capturing footage. The conversation dives into the mental processes involved in compartmentalizing danger and the potential for numbness to develop over time.
2. PTSD and the MDMA Therapy: Anderson reveals his own struggle with PTSD, describing the numbness he experienced not only during war zones but also back home. He discusses his participation in MDMA-assisted therapy, which helped him process trauma and confront his subconscious rationalizations for his dangerous work.
3. Information Overload and the Erosion of Truth: The podcast explores the challenges of navigating a world flooded with information, where misinformation and deepfakes are becoming increasingly difficult to discern. Anderson notes the difficulty in verifying information, even with the presence of video evidence, and how this contributes to a growing sense of uncertainty and distrust.
4. The Polarization of American Politics: Anderson observes the increasingly tribal nature of American politics, where people seem to have chosen sides and are resistant to information that contradicts their existing beliefs. He attributes this to a lack of objective discourse and the ease of finding information that reinforces existing biases.
5. The Role of War Journalists in a Disconnected World: Anderson reflects on the diminishing impact of war journalism, questioning whether the information he brings back is truly reaching people or simply getting lost in the noise. He discusses the challenge of gauging the effect of his work and the potential for his stories to be ignored or dismissed.
6. The White Helmets Controversy: Anderson addresses the controversy surrounding the White Helmets, a volunteer rescue organization operating in Syria, with some alleging that they are a front for al-Qaeda. This highlights the difficulty of discerning truth amidst conflicting narratives and the potential for cynicism to distort perceptions even among seasoned journalists.
7. The Venezuelan Crisis: The podcast examines the conflicting narratives surrounding the Venezuelan crisis, with two opposing sides presenting vastly different accounts of events. Anderson emphasizes the difficulty of determining truth without firsthand experience and the importance of critical thinking when consuming information from multiple sources.
8. The Christchurch Shooting and the Rise of Online Trolling: Anderson reflects on the Christchurch shooting, where the perpetrator appears to have been both a ruthless killer and a troll seeking to provoke outrage. This raises questions about the role of online platforms in radicalization and the difficulty of understanding the motivations of perpetrators.
9. The Impact of Mass Shootings on American Society: Anderson explores the desensitization that occurs with repeated exposure to mass shootings, highlighting the tendency for people to focus on blame rather than addressing the underlying causes of violence. He argues for the importance of critical thinking and engaging with well-researched information.
10. The Role of Social Media in Shaping Perceptions: Anderson discusses the influence of social media in shaping perceptions of world events and the ease with which confirmation bias can be reinforced through echo chambers and targeted algorithms. He expresses concern about the erosion of trust in traditional media sources.
11. The Rise of eSports and the Commodification of Gaming: Anderson reflects on the growing popularity of eSports, highlighting the professionalization of gaming and the vast sums of money involved. This raises questions about the role of technology in entertainment and the potential for obsession and addiction.
12. The Legacy of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars: Anderson discusses the profound impact of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars on the US and the world, noting the disillusionment with military intervention and the growing acceptance of drone strikes as a less costly alternative. He expresses concerns about the erosion of international law and accountability.
13. The Case of Jamal Khashoggi: Anderson addresses the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi journalist who was killed in a Saudi consulate, emphasizing the international outrage that resulted and the difficulty of ignoring such a blatant act of violence.
14. The Ongoing Conflict in Yemen: Anderson examines the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, highlighting the devastating impact of Saudi-led air strikes on civilians and the role of US support in the conflict. He criticizes the US strategy of targeting civilians and the lack of accountability for drone strikes.
15. The Complexity of US-Iran Relations: Anderson recounts the story of Ryan Crocker, former US ambassador to Iraq and Afghanistan, who discovered that Iran was willing to cooperate with the US in the aftermath of 9/11. He highlights how a single speech by George W. Bush derailed potential progress and led to a deterioration of relations.
16. The Misunderstood Nature of Iran: Anderson emphasizes the importance of understanding Iran beyond the government’s rhetoric, highlighting the intelligence and potential for positive relations with the US.
17. The Crisis in Brazil and the Rise of Authoritarianism: Anderson examines the current crisis in Brazil, highlighting the economic instability and the rise of Jair Bolsonaro, a controversial figure with authoritarian tendencies. He explores the anxieties that lead people to seek strong leaders and the potential for a rise in violence.
18. The Segregation of New York City: Anderson recounts a conversation with his friend Judah Freelander, who observes the growing segregation in New York City, specifically in Brooklyn, with gentrification driving a wedge between different communities. He reflects on the challenges of fostering true integration and understanding.
19. The Role of the Media in Perpetuating Stereotypes: Anderson discusses the perpetuation of racist stereotypes, particularly in Brazil, where black women are often stereotyped as prostitutes and black men as drug dealers. He points to the disconnect between the idealized image of Brazil and the realities of poverty and violence.
20. The Michael Jackson Documentary and the Nature of Grooming: Anderson shares his perspective on the Michael Jackson documentary “Leaving Neverland,” expressing his belief that the accusers’ claims are credible. He reflects on the complex process of grooming and the difficulty of recognizing it at the time, particularly in cases of highly charismatic figures.
21. The Penn State Scandal and the Power of Denial: Anderson explores the Penn State scandal, where a prominent football coach was accused of child sexual abuse, and how the university’s culture of denial allowed the abuse to continue. He discusses the power of blind faith and the dangers of overlooking warning signs.
22. The Potential of Psychedelics for Healing and Change: Anderson expresses optimism about the potential of psychedelics, particularly MDMA and psilocybin, to help individuals heal from trauma and foster greater compassion and understanding. He discusses the ongoing research and the potential for psychedelics to play a significant role in addressing societal issues.
23. The Need for Compassion and Understanding: Anderson emphasizes the importance of treating individuals with compassion, even those who have committed crimes. He argues for a more humane approach to the justice system and for investing in programs that help people find redemption and rebuild their lives.
24. The Importance of Curiosity and Openness: Anderson highlights the need to cultivate a sense of curiosity and openness to new experiences and ideas. He believes that these qualities are essential for overcoming the numbness that can result from trauma and for fostering positive change.
5 Memorable Quotes:
1. “War journalists are very fascinating people to me because oftentimes you guys move towards the gunfire with the camera to get the shot.” – Joe Rogan reflects on the unique nature of war journalism, acknowledging the inherent risk and the drive to capture moments of conflict.
2. “You’re an idiot. You never say no to anything.” – Ben Anderson acknowledges his own self-destructive tendencies, highlighting the allure of danger and the difficulty of turning down opportunities even when they are life-threatening.
3. “I think a lot of people feel that way, and I think that leads some people to think Assad is not a good guy, he probably does have the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands, but we should deal with him anyway because that’s better than Iraq or Afghanistan.” – Anderson expresses the cynicism that has taken root in the wake of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, highlighting the difficult choices people face when confronting complex geopolitical issues.
4. “People say you’re an adrenaline junkie, that’s not true at all. It’s not a thrill to be there. It’s horrible to be there. It’s an endurance test every single time, but I still think it’s important.” – Anderson clarifies his motivations for war journalism, emphasizing that it is not about seeking thrills but about bringing vital information to the public.
5. “I really do believe you do have an effect. I think Vice certainly has an effect. I think a lot of this has an effect. I think it’s very difficult to feel that effect if you’re not experiencing it personally.” – Joe Rogan expresses his belief in the impact of war journalism, acknowledging the difficulty of understanding the scale of its influence without firsthand experience.