JRE #1576 – Mariana van Zeller

8-Dec-20

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This podcast dives into the gripping world of black markets and illicit trades through the lens of award-winning journalist and documentarian, Mariana van Zeller. She takes listeners on a thrilling journey, offering raw, boots-on-the-ground reporting that sheds light on the intricate, dangerous, and often unexpected realities behind these underground operations. The podcast explores the motivations of those involved, revealing their vulnerabilities, their dreams, and the complex web of factors that drive them into these dangerous pursuits. This candid conversation grapples with the ethical complexities of exposing these dark corners of the world while questioning the effectiveness of traditional approaches to combating the drug trade and other illicit activities.

Topics Explored

1. Mariana van Zeller’s Investigative Journalism:
   1. Van Zeller’s latest project, the National Geographic television series “Trafficked,” ventures deep into the world’s most dangerous black markets.
   2. The show features in-depth, boots-on-the-ground reporting, often placing van Zeller in high-risk situations, such as traveling with cocaine smugglers in the Amazon.
   3. Van Zeller’s approach focuses on humanizing the individuals involved, exploring their motivations and personal stories, even those often viewed as criminals.
   4. The show is praised for its illuminating, often disturbing, and uniquely empathetic lens on these hidden worlds.
2. The Cocaine Trade in Peru:
   1. Van Zeller’s experience with cocaine smugglers in Peru exposes the harsh realities of poverty and lack of opportunities in remote regions.
   2. The show highlights the crucial role of local families in coca leaf cultivation, often driven by a desire for a better life.
   3. Van Zeller’s interactions with smugglers challenge assumptions about their motivations, revealing their dreams, such as becoming a dentist or pursuing higher education.
   4. The episode prompts a discussion on the potential for cocaine legalization, offering a controversial yet thought-provoking perspective on tackling the drug trade.
3. The Fentanyl Crisis in Mexico:
   1. The podcast delves into the manufacturing and smuggling of fentanyl, a potent and deadly opioid, from Mexico into the United States.
   2. Van Zeller’s encounter with a cartel chemist, who resembles the fictional character Walter White from “Breaking Bad,” sheds light on the technical complexities and dangers of fentanyl production.
   3. The episode emphasizes the devastating consequences of fentanyl addiction, particularly for families who have lost loved ones to the opioid epidemic.
   4. The discussion highlights the interconnectedness of the drug trade across borders, prompting reflection on the impact of US gun laws and the role of corruption in perpetuating the crisis.
4. The Role of American Guns in Mexican Violence:
   1. The podcast investigates the “Iron River,” a pipeline of guns flowing from the US into Mexico, fueling violence and contributing to the cartels’ power.
   2. The episode exposes a shocking reality: guns are often sourced from law enforcement agencies, highlighting corruption within the US justice system.
   3. Van Zeller’s encounters with Sinaloa cartel members, some of whom are later killed, illustrate the real-world dangers of exposing these underground operations.
   4. The episode highlights the hypocrisy of US gun control policies, contrasting strict gun laws in states like California with the ease with which firearms are smuggled across the border.
5. The Controversial Debate on Drug Legalization:
   1. The podcast features a robust discussion on the potential benefits and drawbacks of legalizing drugs, including cocaine, heroin, and marijuana.
   2. Rogan and van Zeller explore the arguments for legalization, including its potential to reduce violence, dismantle criminal enterprises, and generate tax revenue.
   3. The conversation acknowledges the challenges, such as the risks of increased addiction and the need for robust treatment programs.
   4. The episode examines the historical failure of the “war on drugs” and the need for a more nuanced and pragmatic approach to addressing drug use and trafficking.
6. Performance-Enhancing Drugs in Sports:
   1. The podcast delves into the widespread use of steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs in sports, particularly in MMA, bodybuilding, and tennis.
   2. Van Zeller’s experiences at a bodybuilding competition illustrate the extreme lengths athletes will go to for competitive advantage, often with serious health consequences.
   3. The conversation raises the ethical and societal implications of performance-enhancing drugs, questioning the limits of athletic enhancement and the role of regulation.
   4. The episode explores the potential future of sports with the advent of gene editing technologies like CRISPR, raising concerns about creating genetically enhanced athletes with unprecedented abilities.
7. The Tiger Trade in Asia:
   1. The podcast highlights the cruel and lucrative trade in tiger parts, particularly for traditional Chinese medicine and luxury goods.
   2. Van Zeller discusses the use of tiger bones to create tiger wine, a highly sought-after product in Asia, and the disturbing process of preparing this concoction.
   3. The episode draws attention to the hypocrisy of tiger conservation efforts, noting that there are more tigers in captivity in the US than in the wild.
   4. The conversation examines the cultural and economic factors driving the tiger trade, highlighting the need for a global effort to combat this illicit industry.
8. The Exploitation of Vulnerable Individuals:
   1. The podcast explores the vulnerability of individuals caught in the web of illicit activities, from poor farmers to scammers and addicts.
   2. Van Zeller’s encounters with scammers in Jamaica shed light on the exploitation of financial vulnerabilities, highlighting the human cost of these operations.
   3. The conversation touches upon the interconnectedness of global supply chains, revealing how practices like slave labor in the production of iPhones contribute to a larger system of exploitation.
   4. The episode challenges viewers to confront their own complicity in these systems, prompting a deeper reflection on individual responsibility and the need for systemic change.
9. The Fear of Predators:
   1. Van Zeller’s personal experiences with jaguars in the Amazon and mountain lions in California illustrate the primal fear of predators.
   2. The episode discusses the growing conflict between humans and wildlife, particularly in urban areas, and the complexities of predator management.
   3. The conversation explores the tension between conservation efforts and the desire to protect human safety, particularly in regions with high predator populations.
   4. The episode highlights the importance of understanding and respecting the natural world, emphasizing the need for responsible coexistence with predators.

Memorable Quotes:

1. “No story is worth a life. So I hate, I hate, you know, we we minimize the risk. But, you know, there’s these are important stories to tell. These black markets are happening all around us.”
2. “These are the bad guys operating in far distant lands or maybe sometimes around us, but they’re considered the bad people. The people that we have nothing in common with But if you actually sit down with them and listen to their stories, and this is the big shocker of this show, and I think it rubs people the wrong way. Sometimes when you admit, or or when somebody tells you that, look, actually, there is not a lot that differentiates you from the guy smuggling cocaine out of the Peru, the Rain Valley, and Peru. You both have the same are motivated by the same goals, which is, you know, happiness, an opportunity in life, a chance for, you know, to reach your dreams.”
3. “The US has become the supermarket of guns for Mexico and for a lot of Latin America.”
4. “It’s not fair that you get to be born in Philadelphia where this person is born in Peru. It’s not fair. I’m not saying that you did something bad to be born in, you know, a nice place. You know? but it’s not fair.”
5. “And they said, if you don’t release this guy, we’re gonna kill everyone inside, and they would have. No. And that was a a telling moment when they released him. Like, who is running this show? Ugh. This is not the government.”

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