JRE #1588 – Lawrence Wright

by

5-Jan-21







This podcast features a conversation between Joe Rogan and Lawrence Wright, a Pulitzer Prize-winning author who delves into the fascinating world of religions and cults. Their discussion explores the allure and dangers of belief systems, the motivations behind cult leadership, and the psychological complexities of human behavior. Controversial topics, like Scientology, Mormonism, and satanic ritual abuse, are dissected with a blend of skepticism and curiosity, highlighting the intricate dynamics of human faith and the enduring search for meaning.

Major Topics and Themes:

1. Scientology and its Appeal:

  • Joe Rogan shares his personal experience with Scientology, initially intrigued by its promises but later discovering its questionable practices.
  • Lawrence Wright elaborates on the organization’s deliberate targeting of celebrities, offering them structure, community, and a sense of belonging in a chaotic world.
  • The podcast explores how Scientology’s hierarchical structure and the promise of “going clear” can appeal to individuals seeking purpose and a sense of progress.
  • Despite its controversial beliefs and practices, Scientology maintains a strong following, highlighting the power of community, belonging, and the hunger for answers to life’s big questions.

2. The Allure and Perils of Belief Systems:

  • The discussion emphasizes that the appeal of a religion often lies in the “we” rather than the “beliefs,” highlighting the importance of community and belonging.
  • Both Joe Rogan and Lawrence Wright grapple with the paradox of irrational beliefs driving powerful actions, questioning how seemingly intelligent and successful individuals can subscribe to such outlandish doctrines.
  • The podcast delves into the concept of “religious martyrdom,” exploring why celebrities affiliate with stigmatized organizations, suggesting that it might provide them with a sense of purpose, protection, or belonging.
  • The conversation emphasizes the potential dangers of blind faith, particularly in the context of cults, where the pursuit of power and control can lead to manipulation and abuse.

3. The Enduring Question of Mortality:

  • Joe Rogan and Lawrence Wright explore the universal human fear of death and the comfort that religions provide in offering answers and the promise of an afterlife.
  • The podcast examines the concept of immortality, acknowledging the growing interest in life extension research while acknowledging the potential downsides of a potentially endless existence.
  • The conversation probes the question of what constitutes a “soul,” contemplating whether there’s something beyond our physical bodies that gives rise to consciousness and life.
  • Ultimately, the podcast highlights the beauty and fragility of life, reminding listeners to appreciate the present moment and find joy in the journey, rather than clinging to elusive answers about what lies beyond.

4. Exploring the Darker Side of Cults:

  • Lawrence Wright shares his harrowing experience interviewing the sons of Jim Jones, witnessing firsthand the lingering trauma and psychological impact of being raised in a cult.
  • The podcast delves into the history of the Branch Davidians, highlighting the tragic consequences of extreme beliefs and the devastating impact on children raised in these communities.
  • The discussion explores the unsettling phenomenon of “the magic touch,” found in various cults and even within martial arts, where individuals surrender their agency to a perceived authority figure.
  • The conversation examines the disturbing reality of satanic ritual abuse, highlighting the dangers of manipulating children, implanting false memories, and the subsequent societal impact on those who are falsely accused.

5. The Power of Hypnosis and Memory:

  • The podcast delves into the controversial topic of repressed memories, exploring the potential for both genuine trauma and the implantation of false memories through suggestion and manipulation.
  • Lawrence Wright recounts his own experience with hypnosis, seeking to uncover a potential memory of his reaction to the Kennedy assassination, demonstrating the power of suggestion and the malleability of memory.
  • The discussion explores the ethical implications of hypnosis, highlighting the potential for both therapeutic intervention and harmful manipulation, particularly when working with vulnerable individuals.
  • The podcast emphasizes the fallibility of human memory, urging listeners to approach recollections with skepticism and caution, particularly when dealing with emotionally charged experiences or potentially false accusations.

6. The Importance of Critical Thinking:

  • The conversation emphasizes the importance of questioning authority and challenging received wisdom, urging listeners to engage in critical thinking and to avoid blind acceptance of claims.
  • Joe Rogan and Lawrence Wright express their skepticism towards those who claim to have “secret knowledge” or who exploit others for personal gain.
  • The podcast highlights the need for a healthy balance of faith and reason, recognizing that the pursuit of truth requires both emotional openness and intellectual rigor.
  • Ultimately, the conversation encourages listeners to approach life with a sense of curiosity and a willingness to question everything, fostering a deeper understanding of the world and their place in it.

Memorable Quotes:

  • “Scientology really is just a journey into the mind of L. Ron Hubbard.” – Wright succinctly captures the essence of Scientology as an extension of its founder’s idiosyncrasies and beliefs.
  • “If you really want to make money… Religion. That’s where the money is.” – This quote, attributed to Hubbard, reveals his understanding of the lucrative potential of exploiting religious beliefs.
  • “I think the crazier it sounds, then you have to crawl over this huge wall of doubt and misgivings to accept it.” – Wright explains the psychological hurdle that individuals must overcome to embrace seemingly outlandish beliefs.
  • “You don’t need to believe it, you just need to do it.” – This quote, reflecting Scientology’s emphasis on obedience, underlines the potential for manipulation and control within the organization.
  • “We’re always going to be people that believe though.” – Wright acknowledges the persistent human inclination towards belief systems, regardless of their veracity or potential dangers.