JRE #1592 – Bryan Fogel

9-Jan-21

This podcast dives into the chilling world of Russian and Saudi Arabian state-sponsored manipulation, highlighting the incredible bravery of individuals who dared to speak truth to power. Bryan Fogel, the filmmaker behind the Academy Award-winning documentary “Icarus”, details his journey into the dark underbelly of international sports and politics, revealing shocking conspiracies and the lengths to which these regimes will go to silence dissent. The conversation delves into themes of corruption, state-sponsored doping, assassination attempts, and the struggle for free speech in an increasingly controlled world.

Major Topics and Underlying Themes:

1. The Russian Doping Scandal:

• Fogel’s “Icarus” documentary exposed a systematic state-sponsored doping program in Russia, using Gregory Rodchenkov, the head of the Russian Anti-Doping Agency, as a key informant.
• The film’s impact led to Russia’s ban from the 2018 Olympics and further sanctions, but the country has continued to manipulate the system.
• Rodchenkov’s life has been in constant danger since exposing the truth, with Russia filing drug trafficking charges against him in an attempt to prevent him from receiving asylum in the US.
• Rodchenkov’s story highlights the courage it takes to stand up against powerful nations and the lengths to which they will go to protect their image and interests.

2. The Murder of Jamal Khashoggi:

• Fogel’s new documentary, “The Dissident”, investigates the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi journalist critical of the government, who was killed in the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul in 2018.
• The film unveils the brutal details of Khashoggi’s murder, including the audio recordings of his strangulation, dismemberment, and the involvement of Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia.
• The film raises questions about the role of the United States in protecting Saudi Arabia, citing Trump’s veto of sanctions against Saudi Arabia and his attempts to secure immunity for bin Salman.
• Khashoggi’s murder serves as a stark reminder of the dangers faced by journalists and dissidents who challenge authoritarian regimes, and the global ramifications of these actions.

3. The Use of Technology for Surveillance and Control:

• The podcast discusses the use of Pegasus, an Israeli spyware, by Saudi Arabia to hack into the phones of Jamal Khashoggi and Omar Abdulaziz, a Saudi dissident living in Canada.
• This technology enabled Saudi Arabia to monitor their communications and potentially played a role in Khashoggi’s murder.
• The podcast highlights the growing concern about the proliferation of advanced surveillance technology and its potential for abuse by authoritarian regimes.
• This discussion raises ethical questions about the role of technology in protecting human rights and the need for international regulations to prevent its misuse.

4. The Struggle for Free Speech and the Power of Twitter:

• The podcast explores how Twitter has become a crucial platform for freedom of speech in countries like Saudi Arabia, where traditional media is heavily censored.
• Saudi Arabia’s response has been to employ thousands of trolls to manipulate online discourse and silence dissent, targeting individuals critical of the government.
• This underscores the importance of Twitter as a tool for activism and the need to address the challenges of online manipulation and disinformation.
• The podcast reveals the fragility of free speech in a world where governments are increasingly using technology to control information flow.

5. The Moral Responsibilities of Big Tech and Media Companies:

• The podcast criticizes major streaming platforms like Netflix and Amazon for their reluctance to distribute “The Dissident” due to concerns about their business interests in Saudi Arabia.
• This raises questions about the balance between profit and social responsibility for these companies and their role in amplifying important narratives.
• The podcast highlights the potential for these platforms to be complicit in silencing dissenting voices and perpetuating human rights abuses.
• The discussion calls for greater transparency and accountability from these companies regarding their ethical considerations and the impact of their decisions on global affairs.

6. The Personal Costs of Speaking Truth to Power:

• The podcast highlights the sacrifices made by individuals like Gregory Rodchenkov and Omar Abdulaziz who have risked their lives to expose corruption and human rights abuses.
• Fogel’s own experience in facing threats and intimidation underscores the challenges and dangers of investigative journalism.
• The podcast encourages listeners to consider the importance of supporting individuals who fight for justice and to recognize the personal costs they bear.
• The conversation serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of holding those in power accountable for their actions and the critical role of independent journalism in a democratic society.

7. The Global Landscape of Authoritarianism:

• The podcast draws parallels between the tactics employed by Russia and Saudi Arabia, suggesting a global trend of authoritarianism.
• Fogel argues that these regimes believe they can act with impunity, citing instances where they have been able to evade consequences for their actions.
• The podcast calls for a more unified international response to these regimes and for greater vigilance in protecting human rights and democratic values.
• This conversation raises urgent concerns about the state of global politics and the need for global collaboration to address threats to freedom and justice.

8. The Power of Film as a Tool for Change:

• Fogel emphasizes the impact of documentaries like “Icarus” and “The Dissident” in exposing wrongdoing and influencing public opinion.
• He cites examples of films that have driven change in various fields, including animal rights, environmental protection, and social justice.
• The podcast underscores the power of storytelling in challenging injustice and advocating for positive change.
• The conversation inspires audiences to consider the role of film in shaping our understanding of the world and empowering individuals to act for a more just and equitable future.

9. The Future of Human Enhancement and Genetic Engineering:

• The podcast speculates on the potential implications of genetic engineering for athletic performance and human evolution.
• Fogel expresses concern about the potential for misuse of this technology in a world where countries like China and Russia may seek to create genetically enhanced athletes.
• The conversation sparks a discussion about the ethical considerations surrounding genetic engineering and the need for responsible development and regulation of this technology.
• This topic raises thought-provoking questions about the future of humanity and the potential for both progress and peril in the realm of scientific advancement.

10. The Importance of Courage and Integrity:

• The podcast celebrates the courage of individuals like Gregory Rodchenkov and Omar Abdulaziz, who have risked everything to stand up for what they believe in.
• Fogel’s own journey from comedy to investigative filmmaking highlights the importance of following one’s convictions and using one’s platform for good.
• The conversation encourages listeners to consider the role of courage and integrity in navigating a world where truth is often suppressed.
• This message inspires audiences to be mindful of the choices they make and to stand up for what they believe in, even in the face of adversity.

Memorable Quotes

• “I think he is this guy who goes that every day that he is alive in his mind, is another day that he was gonna be dead. And so I think he has a it it’s hard to understand, but just has a different way of looking at life.” – Bryan Fogel on Gregory Rodchenkov’s resilience and optimism in the face of constant threats.
• “If you can’t test the most and if you can’t catch the most tested athlete on planet Earth, Well, what does this mean for every other athlete on planet Earth?” – Bryan Fogel on the failings of the international doping system, questioning the validity of athletic achievements.
• “They don’t forget. And there’s just and there’s just, you know, a list and when they feel that that they can strike, They do.” – Bryan Fogel on the ruthless tactics employed by authoritarian regimes to eliminate perceived threats.
• “You know, I I love Russians. I I love Russia. Unfortunately, I don’t think I can go back there, but, I mean, I I just I love the culture.” – Bryan Fogel expressing his admiration for Russian culture while acknowledging the dangers he faces due to his work.
• “It’s okay that Omar’s brothers sit in a Saudi jail tortured. 23 of his friends sit in jail. Thousands and thousands and thousands. people are arrested or 100 or beheaded simply for for speaking publicly not in support of their government.” – Bryan Fogel highlighting the stark reality of repression in Saudi Arabia and the global indifference to it.