JRE #1705 - Bret Weinstein & Heather Heying

9-Sep-21

This podcast features biologists Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying, hosts of the “DarkHorse Podcast” and authors of “A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century: Evolution and the Challenges of Modern Life.” Joe Rogan and his guests discuss a range of controversial topics, including the pandemic, scientific integrity, media bias, and the dangers of ideological conformity. Underlying themes explore the importance of critical thinking, the limits of consensus, and the need for a more robust and open approach to scientific inquiry.

1. Joe Rogan’s COVID-19 Experience and Treatment:

Rogan details his experience with COVID-19, emphasizing the importance of early aggressive treatment.
He highlights the Joe Rogan Protocol, a regimen of vitamins, supplements, and medications he used to recover.
He criticizes the lack of emphasis on pre-existing health and preventative measures in the national conversation about COVID-19.
He advocates for doctors to adopt a more proactive approach to treating COVID-19, emphasizing that early intervention can significantly improve outcomes.

2. Ivermectin and “Horse Deworming” Controversy:

The discussion addresses the controversy surrounding ivermectin, a drug often touted as a treatment for COVID-19, despite its approval primarily for use against parasites.
Weinstein and Heying discuss the drug’s safety and efficacy, pointing to its long history of use and its classification as a WHO essential medicine.
They address the misinformation surrounding ivermectin, including claims of mass hospitalizations due to overdoses, which they refute based on toxicological data.
They highlight the potential for ivermectin’s effectiveness against COVID-19, emphasizing the need for open discussion and scientific investigation rather than dismissing it outright.

3. The Dangers of Ideological Conformity and Censorship:

The podcast critiques the trend of ideological conformity, particularly in the media and academia, where dissenting voices are often silenced or marginalized.
Weinstein and Heying discuss the suppression of alternative perspectives on COVID-19 treatment, particularly regarding ivermectin, as well as the lab leak hypothesis for the virus’s origins.
They criticize the role of “fact-checkers” in censoring information, arguing that they often function as ideological gatekeepers rather than neutral arbiters of truth.
They emphasize the importance of scientific skepticism and the need for open debate to challenge accepted narratives and advance genuine understanding.

4. The “Evolutionary Toolkit” for Navigating a Complex World:

Weinstein and Heying introduce the “Evolutionary Toolkit,” a framework for critically analyzing information and understanding human behavior in the context of evolution.
They explain that by understanding the evolutionary pressures that shaped humans, we can better interpret our current environment and its impact on our health, relationships, and society.
They argue that the mismatch between our evolved nature and the rapidly changing modern world is at the root of many of our problems.
They emphasize the importance of adaptability and the need to regain control over the pace of change to ensure a sustainable future.

5. The Importance of Disagreeableness and Critical Thinking:

The conversation delves into the importance of “disagreeableness” in scientific inquiry and societal progress, contrasting it with the prevailing cultural emphasis on agreeableness and conformity.
Weinstein and Heying argue that the suppression of dissent, particularly in academia, hinders critical thinking and stifles innovation.
They highlight the need for a more robust culture of questioning and challenging assumptions, particularly when dealing with complex issues that have significant social and political implications.
They suggest that the prevailing cultural bias towards agreeableness, particularly in women, may be a product of historical social structures and that this bias needs to be challenged to unlock greater potential in all individuals.

6. The “Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide” to the 21st Century:

Weinstein and Heying discuss their book, “A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century: Evolution and the Challenges of Modern Life.”
They explain that the book provides a framework for understanding human nature and its implications for modern life, drawing parallels between our evolved biology and the challenges we face in the 21st century.
They discuss topics such as health, relationships, education, and societal structures, offering insights based on evolutionary principles.
They aim to empower individuals to critically analyze their lives and their environment, making informed decisions that align with their evolved nature.

7. The Myth of the “Blank Slate” and the Power of Culture:

The discussion addresses the myth of the “blank slate,” challenging the notion that humans are born without innate predispositions and are solely shaped by culture.
Weinstein and Heying argue that humans, like all species, have evolved under specific pressures and possess inherent biological tendencies that influence their behavior.
They emphasize the powerful influence of culture in shaping human behavior and the need to understand how our cultural practices interact with our biology.
They highlight the importance of critically examining cultural narratives to identify those that align with our evolved nature and those that may be harmful or unsustainable.

8. The “Tyranny of the Majority” and the Need for Adaptive Footholds:

The podcast explores the dangers of “tyranny of the majority,” where dominant social forces or ideologies can suppress dissenting views and limit individual freedom.
Weinstein and Heying discuss the potential for societal instability and conflict when ideological divisions become entrenched and the space for dialogue and compromise shrinks.
They argue that creating “adaptive footholds” within society, where diverse perspectives can be heard and debated, is crucial for navigating complex challenges.
They emphasize the importance of recognizing that progress is not always about “growth” in a traditional sense, but rather about finding ways to adapt and thrive within the limits of our planet’s resources.

9. The “Fourth Frontier” and the Challenge of Sustainable Growth:

Weinstein and Heying introduce the concept of the “Fourth Frontier,” which involves creating a sense of “growth” without requiring the expansion of resources or territory.
They argue that humans are inherently driven by the desire for growth, but that this desire can be redirected towards fulfilling needs without depleting the environment.
They highlight examples of how this concept can be applied to various aspects of life, including personal development, career advancement, and societal progress.
They suggest that we need to redefine our understanding of “growth” to create a more sustainable and equitable future.

10. The Dynamics of “Game Theory” and Societal Conflict:

The conversation delves into the principles of “game theory” and its implications for understanding societal dynamics.
Weinstein and Heying explain how competition for limited resources, particularly in the context of education, can lead to inequality and conflict.
They highlight the tendency for those with advantages to resist policies that promote equality, fearing a “level playing field.”
They argue that a more equitable society requires a conscious effort to overcome these tendencies and promote opportunities for all individuals.

11. The Hidden Dangers of “Modern Wheat” and Gut Health:

The podcast explores the growing problem of wheat sensitivity and allergies, suggesting a link to the modern processing and manipulation of wheat.
Weinstein and Heying highlight the role of the gut microbiome in health and well-being, emphasizing the importance of a balanced and diverse diet.
They discuss the challenges of distinguishing between genuine sensitivities and fashionable dietary trends, highlighting the need for evidence-based approaches to health.
They argue for a more holistic understanding of health that goes beyond addressing symptoms and focuses on root causes.

12. The Malocclusion Controversy and the “Mewing” Method:

The discussion delves into the controversial topic of malocclusion, a condition where teeth don’t properly align.
Weinstein and Heying present the “Mewing” method, developed by orthodontist Mike Mew, which advocates for tongue placement and chewing exercises to promote healthy jaw development.
They argue that the traditional orthodontic approach to malocclusion often focuses on symptoms rather than root causes, and that the Mewing method offers a more holistic and potentially more effective solution.
They highlight the challenges of challenging established practices in the field of orthodontics, where ideological conformity and financial interests may hinder innovation.

13. The Limits of “Blueprint Genes” and the Power of Developmental Environments:

The conversation challenges the notion of genes as rigid blueprints for physical traits, arguing that development is a dynamic and complex process influenced by environmental factors.
Weinstein and Heying discuss the example of hyenas, where captive-raised animals exhibit different skull development compared to their wild counterparts, highlighting the impact of environmental influences.
They emphasize that genes provide a set of “rules” for development rather than a specific plan, allowing for adaptation and variation within a species.
They argue for a more holistic understanding of human development that considers both genetic and environmental factors.

14. The “Hoax Projects” of Peter Boghossian and the Corruption of Academia:

Weinstein and Heying discuss the “hoax projects” conducted by philosopher Peter Boghossian, James Lindsay, and Helen Pluckrose, which exposed the flaws in academic publishing and the dominance of ideological bias.
They highlight the willingness of some academic journals to publish nonsensical or poorly researched papers, particularly in areas like gender studies and critical theory.
They express concern about the increasing politicization of academia and the suppression of dissenting views, particularly on topics like race, sex, and gender.
They argue for a return to rigorous scholarship and a commitment to truth-seeking in academia, where all ideas are considered and debated with intellectual integrity.

15. The Future of Higher Education and the Rise of Independent Platforms:

Weinstein and Heying discuss the potential for a new model of higher education that is less beholden to traditional structures and institutions.
They highlight the rise of independent platforms like Substack and the potential for online learning to disrupt the existing educational landscape.
They acknowledge the challenges of creating a viable alternative to traditional universities, particularly in terms of accreditation and funding.
They emphasize the need for a more decentralized and open approach to education that prioritizes critical thinking, intellectual freedom, and genuine inquiry.

16. The “Zombification” of Social Media and the Dangers of Filter Bubbles:

The podcast explores the impact of social media on our thinking and behavior, particularly the phenomenon of “zombification,” where individuals become trapped in echo chambers and filter bubbles.
Weinstein and Heying discuss how social media algorithms can reinforce existing biases and limit exposure to alternative perspectives.
They argue that this “zombification” contributes to polarization and hinders our ability to engage in reasoned debate.
They advocate for actively seeking out diverse sources of information and challenging our own assumptions to avoid falling prey to these harmful trends.

17. The Pandemic of Variants and the Need for a Composite Herd Immunity Strategy:

The conversation addresses the emergence of COVID-19 variants and the limitations of current vaccination strategies.
They discuss the work of immunobiologist Geir Vanden Busch, who accurately predicted the emergence of variants and the potential for vaccine escape.
They argue that a more comprehensive approach to herd immunity is needed, incorporating natural immunity, prophylactic treatments, and vaccination.
They emphasize the need for a more nuanced and flexible public health strategy that adapts to the evolving nature of the virus and prioritizes the well-being of all individuals.

18. The “Popularity Contest” of Politics and the Dangers of Authoritarian Tendencies:

Weinstein and Heying critique the current political system, arguing that it is too often dominated by a “popularity contest” that fails to produce effective leaders.
They express concern about the rise of authoritarian tendencies, where leaders prioritize control and obedience over collaboration and compromise.
They suggest that the current system incentivizes a certain type of personality that is more interested in power and control than in serving the public good.
They advocate for a more representative and accountable political system that prioritizes the needs of all individuals.

19. The Censorship of the “Unity 2020” Movement and the Limits of Free Speech:

The podcast discusses the censorship of the “Unity 2020” movement, a grassroots effort to create a third-party political alternative.
Weinstein and Heying argue that the banning of their Twitter account, despite no evidence of wrongdoing, highlights the arbitrary nature of censorship on social media platforms.
They express concern about the suppression of political dissent and the potential for these platforms to control the narrative of public discourse.
They emphasize the importance of protecting free speech and allowing for a plurality of voices in the political sphere.

20. The “Hyper-Novelty” of the Modern World and the Potential for Human Augmentation:

The conversation concludes with a discussion of the concept of “hyper-novelty,” highlighting the rapid pace of change in the modern world and its impact on human psychology.
Weinstein and Heying express concern about the potential for technological advancements, particularly in the field of brain-computer interfaces, to exacerbate existing inequalities.
They question whether human beings will be able to adapt to these accelerating changes and whether the integration of technology with our biology will ultimately lead to a loss of what it means to be human.
They conclude by emphasizing the importance of engaging in thoughtful discourse and ethical consideration as we navigate the challenges of a rapidly changing world.

5 Memorable Quotes:

“We’re all being told you’re on team blue effectively. You’re on team mainstream or you’re someone else. You’re persona non grata, and you’re you’re gonna become a 2nd class citizen.” – Joe Rogan highlights the increasingly polarized political landscape and the pressure to conform to mainstream narratives.
“Science is not done by consensus. it’s not a democracy. It’s not majority rule. Right. It’s you know, there’s an underlying reality. Sorry. You may like it. You may not, but it is what it is.” – Bret Weinstein emphasizes that scientific truth should not be determined by popular opinion, but by rigorous evidence and analysis.
“The fact that something has got these things mismatched tells you you’re doing something there’s something novel in your environment that’s causing this.” – Heather Heying argues that deviations from our evolutionary expectations, like malocclusion, indicate changes in our environment that need to be addressed.
“The academy is increasingly, you know, a potemkin educational structure. It’s it’s not real anymore.” – Bret Weinstein criticizes the politicization of academia and the suppression of dissenting voices, arguing that it undermines the core mission of education.
“We actually have the tools to get us all out of this mess together. we could actually address this pandemic effectively at this point with what we have at our disposal.” – Heather Heying expresses optimism that we can overcome the pandemic if we adopt a more open and comprehensive approach.