JRE #1716 – Steven Rinella

This podcast features outdoor enthusiast, writer, and host of the television series “MeatEater,” Steven Rinella. The conversation with Joe Rogan explores topics ranging from mountain lion encounters to the ethical considerations surrounding hunting and the future of the outdoor industry. There are also some surprising and thought-provoking discussions on the impact of social media, the current state of free speech, and the changing perception of hunting in modern society.

Podcast Topics

1. Steven Rinella’s Mountain Lion Encounters: Rinella recounts two personal encounters with mountain lions, one a small, dog-sized creature, and the other a massive, terrifying predator.
   1. The first encounter occurred when Rinella was a child, and the lion was small and non-threatening.
   2. The second encounter was a close call, with the lion stationary and staring directly at the truck he was in.
   3. The encounter highlights the potential danger of mountain lions, especially in areas where they are not managed as a big game animal.
   4. This topic delves into the debate surrounding mountain lion hunting, with Rinella arguing for their management as a renewable resource to prevent attacks on humans and livestock.
2. Controversial Videos on Wildlife Encounters: Rinella discusses two disturbing videos involving mountain lions that went viral online.
   1. The first video showed a man shooting a mountain lion that approached his dog.
   2. The second video showed a man shooting a mountain lion at close range, which Rinella describes as “too much” to publish on their website.
   3. This topic raises questions about responsible wildlife management and the appropriate response to dangerous encounters.
   4. The discussion also touches on the ethics of sharing graphic content online and the potential for it to incite violence or encourage irresponsible behavior.
3. The Impact of Mountain Lions on Turkey Calls: Rinella shares his experience and that of his friends of mountain lions responding to turkey calls during hunting season.
   1. He recounts a personal experience of a mountain lion and her two kits approaching a turkey call, highlighting the boldness and cleverness of the predator.
   2. He also discusses a friend’s experience of having a mountain lion respond to his turkey call, suggesting that it is a potentially dangerous encounter for hunters.
   3. This topic highlights the unpredictability of wildlife encounters and the importance of being prepared for any animal that may respond to a call.
   4. Rinella emphasizes the need for hunters to be aware of their surroundings and the potential risks associated with using turkey calls.
4. The Mark Twain Naming Controversy: Rogan and Rinella delve into the controversy surrounding the origin of Mark Twain’s pen name.
   1. They discuss the traditional understanding that “Mark Twain” refers to a depth measurement of 12 feet, referencing Twain’s time as a riverboat pilot on the Mississippi River.
   2. They then explore a more recent theory that “Mark Twain” actually refers to two drinks, citing a book claiming that Twain would order two drinks by saying “Mark Twain” at a bar.
   3. Rinella shares a story of how Twain himself disputed this theory, claiming he adopted the name from a deceased riverboat pilot, Captain Isaiah Sellers.
   4. This topic highlights the fascination with historical figures and the evolving interpretations of their lives and legacies.
5. The Importance of Hunting and Wildlife Management: Rinella argues for the importance of hunting as a tool for managing wildlife populations and preventing human-wildlife conflicts.
   1. He uses the example of British Columbia, where the ban on grizzly bear hunting has led to an overpopulation of grizzlies and an increase in human-bear encounters.
   2. He highlights the fact that some states, like California, have seen an increase in mountain lion attacks on humans because they do not manage the species as a big game animal.
   3. This topic delves into the complexities of conservation and the role of humans in maintaining healthy ecosystems.
   4. Rinella emphasizes the need for a balanced approach to wildlife management, one that takes into account both human safety and the health of animal populations.
6. The COVID-19 Pandemic and Wildlife: Rinella and Rogan discuss the discovery of COVID-19 antibodies in deer and the potential implications for humans.
   1. They explore the mystery of how COVID-19 spread to deer, considering various theories such as close proximity to humans, contamination from human sneezes, and potential spread from captive deer farms.
   2. The discussion highlights the interconnectedness of human and animal health and the importance of understanding how diseases can spread across species.
   3. They also discuss the potential for COVID-19 to mutate in animals and potentially re-emerge in humans, creating a new pandemic.
   4. This topic raises concerns about the long-term impact of human activities on wildlife and the need for continued research into zoonotic diseases.
7. The Role of Social Media in Modern Society: Rinella and Rogan explore the impact of social media on communication, discourse, and the spread of misinformation.
   1. They discuss the algorithms used by social media platforms to keep users engaged, often by highlighting controversial or divisive content, leading to an increase in polarization and anger.
   2. Rinella shares his experience with demonetization on YouTube, where his hunting content was flagged as unsuitable for advertising due to the depiction of animals being killed.
   3. They discuss the potential for social media to be used as a tool for censorship and the suppression of dissenting opinions, particularly when it comes to controversial topics like the lab leak theory of COVID-19.
   4. This topic explores the growing power of social media platforms and the need for greater regulation and transparency.
8. The Importance of Free Speech and Diverse Perspectives: Rinella advocates for the importance of free speech and the need to allow for the expression of diverse perspectives, even when they are controversial.
   1. He highlights the dangers of social media platforms becoming arbiters of truth and silencing dissenting voices, citing the example of the lab leak theory being labeled as a conspiracy theory.
   2. He discusses the hypocrisy of those who promote “cancel culture” while simultaneously engaging in it themselves.
   3. Rinella argues that true understanding comes from hearing all sides of an issue and engaging in respectful debate, even when those perspectives are challenging or uncomfortable.
   4. This topic emphasizes the importance of open dialogue and critical thinking in a democratic society.
9. The Importance of Exposure to Adversity and Challenge: Rinella discusses the value of experiencing adversity and challenge in both childhood and adulthood.
   1. He highlights the importance of allowing children to experience some level of risk and independence, suggesting that overprotection can lead to stunted development.
   2. He argues that engaging in challenging activities like sports, martial arts, and hunting can help individuals learn valuable lessons about resilience, perseverance, and dealing with failure.
   3. He also discusses the importance of allowing individuals to experience heartache and loss as part of a healthy emotional development, rather than trying to shield them from these experiences.
   4. This topic explores the human need for challenge and growth and the importance of learning from both successes and failures.
10. The MeatEater Empire: Rinella shares insights into the growth and development of his company, MeatEater, and its various branches.
    1. He highlights the importance of having a team of dedicated individuals who share a passion for the outdoors and who can help amplify his message.
    2. He discusses the challenges of managing a large and diverse organization, particularly the difficulty of stepping away from his personal approach to interacting with employees and adopting a more calculated management style.
    3. He shares his experience with working with various brands and companies, emphasizing the importance of building genuine relationships based on shared values and interests.
    4. This topic offers a glimpse into the entrepreneurial spirit behind MeatEater and the dedication it takes to build a successful business while remaining true to one’s values.
11. The Future of Hunting and Outdoor Media: Rinella shares his thoughts on the future of hunting and the challenges facing the outdoor industry.
    1. He discusses the changing landscape of media distribution and the opportunities presented by platforms like YouTube and Spotify.
    2. He acknowledges the potential threats posed by social media censorship and demonetization, particularly for content creators who focus on hunting.
    3. He expresses optimism about the future of hunting and the growing interest in outdoor recreation, particularly among younger generations.
    4. He emphasizes the importance of providing accurate and engaging content that celebrates the ethical and responsible aspects of hunting, while also highlighting the complexities and challenges of managing wildlife.
12. The Importance of Authenticity and Passion: Rinella emphasizes the importance of authenticity and genuine passion in both hunting and media production.
    1. He advocates for a more honest and nuanced representation of hunting, one that goes beyond the simple act of killing and portrays the full experience, including the challenges, triumphs, and emotional connections.
    2. He also emphasizes the importance of engaging with a variety of perspectives and voices within the hunting community, rather than promoting a single, narrow narrative.
    3. He discusses the need for a more inclusive and welcoming culture within the outdoors, one that welcomes individuals from diverse backgrounds and interests.
    4. This topic highlights the importance of celebrating diversity and embracing a wide range of perspectives in the pursuit of a shared passion for the outdoors.

Memorable Quotes

1. “If you’ve had two sightings [of mountain lions], that’s a lot. So they’re few and far between, man.”
2. “I think the states that manage them as a big game animal are on the right track.”
3. “They’re so fucking bold, those things. They’re so clever too.”
4. “I just think it’s time to restore the human predator.”
5. “I think the worst thing that can happen is a kid that doesn’t feel loved.”