JRE #1717 - Alex Berenson

12-Oct-21

Joe Rogan Experience #1717 – Alex Berenson – Podcast Topics

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience features Alex Berenson, a journalist and author known for his critical examination of pandemic-related narratives. Rogan and Berenson engage in a wide-ranging discussion about censorship, vaccine efficacy, potential side effects, the lab leak hypothesis, and the influence of pharmaceutical companies. The conversation is punctuated by controversial and thought-provoking points, highlighting a deep underlying theme of distrust in mainstream narratives and a call for open discourse in a time of increasing polarization.

1. Alex Berenson’s Censorship from Twitter:

Berenson was permanently banned from Twitter for allegedly spreading misinformation about COVID-19.
He argues that his claims were based on verifiable sources and data, emphasizing the issue of ideological censorship.
Rogan supports Berenson’s claims of unfair censorship, pointing to the lack of malicious intent and the verifiable nature of the information.
Berenson’s Substack platform, emphasizing free speech, serves as an alternative to Twitter, attracting over 150,000 subscribers.

2. Vaccine Efficacy and Duration of Protection:

Berenson presents data suggesting that vaccine-induced immunity wanes significantly faster than natural immunity.
He highlights a study from Israel showing vaccine-generated antibodies declining by 40% per month compared to 5-10% for natural antibodies.
Berenson questions the effectiveness of booster shots, arguing that the long-term effects and potential toxicity remain unclear.
Rogan expresses skepticism about the effectiveness of booster shots and the need for perpetual vaccinations, questioning the long-term implications.

3. The Lab Leak Hypothesis and Gain-of-Function Research:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the lab leak hypothesis, suggesting the possibility of SARS-CoV-2 emerging from a lab in Wuhan.
They highlight internal documents suggesting that the EcoHealth Alliance, funded by the NIH, proposed research involving infecting bats with a spike protein optimized to attack humans.
Berenson criticizes Anthony Fauci’s efforts to discourage investigation into the lab leak hypothesis and his alleged involvement in gain-of-function research.
Rogan underscores the significance of the lab leak hypothesis, questioning the role of gain-of-function research and the potential for accidental release of a dangerous virus.

4. Vaccine Side Effects and Potential Risks:

Berenson emphasizes the importance of acknowledging potential vaccine side effects, particularly myocarditis, especially in adolescent males.
He cites data indicating that the risk of myocarditis from vaccination may be higher than the risk of death from COVID-19 for healthy adolescents.
Berenson raises concerns about the potential for antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE), where antibodies may actually help the virus infect cells.
Rogan emphasizes the need for transparency and open discussion regarding potential vaccine side effects and long-term consequences.

5. The Role of Pharmaceutical Companies:

Berenson expresses skepticism towards the motives of pharmaceutical companies, pointing to their profit incentives and history of questionable practices.
He cites examples like Vioxx, a drug that the FDA estimated killed 55,000 people, and Pfizer’s massive settlement for fraudulent marketing.
He argues that pharmaceutical companies may not be truthful about potential side effects or problems with their products.
Rogan shares his own experiences with Vioxx and its devastating consequences, highlighting the need for greater scrutiny and accountability within the pharmaceutical industry.

6. The Shift in Narrative and Public Perception:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the changing narrative surrounding COVID-19, from initial emphasis on vaccines as a solution to blaming the unvaccinated.
They criticize the push for vaccine mandates and passports, especially in the face of waning vaccine efficacy and the availability of alternative treatments.
Berenson highlights the growing polarization and tribalism around vaccination, with vaccinated individuals often looking down upon those who choose not to vaccinate.
Rogan emphasizes the importance of recognizing the complexities of the situation and avoiding simplistic narratives that fuel division and distrust.

7. The Role of Media and Censorship:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the role of social media and mainstream media in shaping public perception of COVID-19.
Berenson criticizes the Trusted News Initiative, a consortium of media organizations and tech companies, for allegedly coordinating narratives and suppressing dissenting voices.
They highlight the impact of censorship on open discourse and the suppression of alternative viewpoints, creating echo chambers and hindering the sharing of accurate information.
Rogan emphasizes the importance of independent media and alternative platforms for providing diverse perspectives and challenging established narratives.

8. The Importance of Open Discourse and Critical Thinking:

Berenson and Rogan stress the need for open discourse and critical thinking, especially in the face of complex scientific issues.
They advocate for challenging mainstream narratives, questioning official pronouncements, and examining data from various sources.
They emphasize the dangers of silencing dissenting voices and creating echo chambers, hindering the advancement of knowledge and understanding.
Rogan encourages listeners to remain open-minded, engage in critical thinking, and seek diverse perspectives on complex issues.

9. The Future of COVID-19 and Treatment Options:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the future of COVID-19 and the potential for new treatments, including therapeutics like those developed by Merck and Pfizer.
They emphasize the importance of testing and evaluating various therapeutic options, including ivermectin and monoclonal antibodies.
They express concern about the focus on vaccines as the primary solution, potentially hindering the development and exploration of other potential treatments.
Rogan acknowledges the ongoing nature of the pandemic and the need for ongoing research and development of effective treatments.

10. The Political Landscape and Polarization:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the political landscape surrounding COVID-19, highlighting the polarization and partisan divisions.
They criticize the use of inflammatory rhetoric and divisive language, further exacerbating tensions and hindering productive dialogue.
They express concern about the suppression of alternative viewpoints and the silencing of dissenting voices, further fueling mistrust and polarization.
Rogan encourages listeners to approach discussions with a focus on understanding and open-mindedness, rather than resorting to partisan attacks.

11. The Importance of Individual Responsibility and Health:

Berenson and Rogan emphasize the importance of individual responsibility for health, including healthy lifestyle choices, exercise, and proper nutrition.
They argue that focusing solely on vaccination overlooks the broader factors contributing to overall health and well-being.
They discuss the role of individual agency and choice in managing health risks, highlighting the importance of informed decision-making.
Rogan emphasizes the need to empower individuals to take control of their own health and well-being, rather than relying solely on external interventions.

12. The Impact of Fear and Panic:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the role of fear and panic in shaping public perception and policy decisions related to COVID-19.
They criticize the use of fear-mongering and alarmist rhetoric, which can lead to irrational decisions and societal upheaval.
They highlight the need for calm and measured responses, emphasizing the importance of evidence-based decision-making over fear-driven reactions.
Rogan encourages listeners to avoid succumbing to fear and panic, emphasizing the importance of maintaining perspective and critical thinking.

13. The Use of Euphemisms and Propaganda:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the use of euphemisms and propaganda in shaping public discourse around COVID-19.
They criticize the use of terms like “vaccine hesitant” or “anti-vaxxer” to label those who have concerns about vaccines.
They point to the manipulation of language and narratives to control public perception and suppress dissent.
Rogan encourages listeners to be aware of the manipulative language used in public discourse and to engage in critical thinking about the information they encounter.

14. The Power of Social Media and Censorship:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the power of social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook in shaping public discourse and influencing public opinion.
They highlight the potential for censorship and the suppression of dissenting voices, undermining the principles of free speech and open debate.
They question the role of social media companies in determining what information is considered “misinformation” and the implications for free expression.
Rogan emphasizes the importance of ensuring a diverse and robust online environment where a wide range of viewpoints can be expressed and debated.

15. The Role of Government and Public Health Officials:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the role of government and public health officials in managing the COVID-19 pandemic.
They criticize the inconsistencies and contradictions in public health messaging, highlighting the lack of transparency and accountability.
They question the influence of pharmaceutical companies and the potential for conflicts of interest in policy decisions.
Rogan encourages listeners to critically evaluate the actions and pronouncements of government officials and public health institutions.

16. The Importance of Individual Choice and Autonomy:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the importance of individual choice and autonomy in healthcare decisions, particularly regarding vaccination.
They criticize the erosion of individual freedoms and the imposition of mandates and restrictions on personal choices.
They emphasize the need for informed consent and the right of individuals to make their own decisions about their health.
Rogan encourages listeners to advocate for their own autonomy and to resist undue pressure or coercion in healthcare decisions.

17. The Role of Science and Evidence-Based Decision-Making:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the importance of science and evidence-based decision-making in navigating the complexities of the pandemic.
They criticize the suppression of scientific dissent and the promotion of narratives based on incomplete or biased data.
They emphasize the need for rigorous research, transparent data sharing, and open dialogue among scientists.
Rogan encourages listeners to rely on evidence-based information and to challenge claims that lack scientific rigor or transparency.

18. The Future of Society and the Pandemic:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the potential long-term impacts of the pandemic and its implications for society.
They express concern about the growing polarization, the erosion of trust in institutions, and the potential for increased government control.
They emphasize the need for a return to open discourse, critical thinking, and a respect for individual freedoms.
Rogan encourages listeners to remain vigilant, to engage in constructive dialogue, and to advocate for a future that values reason and freedom.

19. The Power of Storytelling and Truth-Telling:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the importance of storytelling and truth-telling in navigating the complexities of the pandemic.
They emphasize the need for honest and accurate narratives, challenging the manipulation and distortion of information.
They acknowledge the power of personal experiences and anecdotes in shaping public perception and understanding.
Rogan encourages listeners to seek out diverse perspectives, to engage in critical thinking, and to embrace the power of storytelling in uncovering the truth.

20. The Need for Courage and Resilience:

Berenson and Rogan discuss the importance of courage and resilience in facing the challenges of the pandemic and the increasing polarization of society.
They encourage listeners to stand up for their beliefs, to challenge established narratives, and to advocate for truth and freedom.
They highlight the importance of remaining open-minded, engaging in constructive dialogue, and fostering a culture of respect and understanding.
Rogan emphasizes the need for individuals to be courageous in their pursuit of truth and to stand up against the forces of censorship and manipulation.

Memorable Quotes

“During this incredibly confusing time where people are more hysterical and more freaked out and anxiety filled than I’ve ever seen people in all of my 54 years of life, this is the peak. This is this is post 911 peak.” – Rogan, reflecting on the heightened anxiety and polarization surrounding the pandemic.
“It turns out being right hurts.” – Berenson, acknowledging the consequences of speaking truth to power and challenging established narratives.
“The vaccines were never supposed to prevent you from getting sick. They’re supposed to keep you from being hospitalized. Not even that anymore. Now it’s basically they’ll prevent you from dying, which which also probably I mean, there’s there’s there’s evidence. There’s some evidence of benefit of really serious illness or death, but I’m not even convinced we’re gonna when we look back over, say another 12 months out that that’s gonna be the case.” – Rogan, expressing skepticism about the ever-shifting promises and claims surrounding vaccine efficacy.
“You are more likely to become sick if you are vaccinated than if you are not. In these older categories. So anything above 50.” – Berenson, citing data from the UK suggesting that in older age groups, vaccination may not offer protection against infection.
“It’s not your problem. And don’t give me this nonsense that that, like, somehow there are so many unvaccinated people that it’s gonna destroy hospital systems. Okay? Even in the United States, 80% of the people who are real risk of getting sick and dying from COVID people over 65 are fully vaccinated.” – Rogan, challenging the narrative that unvaccinated individuals are solely responsible for hospital strain and mortality.