JRE #1743 - Steven Pinker

2-Dec-21

Podcast Topic Breakdown: #1743 – Steven Pinker

This podcast episode features a conversation between Joe Rogan and Steven Pinker, a Harvard College Professor of Psychology. Pinker is known for his work on the decline of violence and the rise of human rationality, and his latest book, Rationality: What It Is, Why It Seems Scarce, Why It Matters, is the focus of the discussion. The conversation touches on a variety of topics, many of them provocative, controversial, and rooted in the complex interplay of human psychology, technology, and societal dynamics.

Here are 15 major topics that emerge from the conversation, along with a four-point summary of each:

1. The Art of Photography

Pinker discusses his passion for photography, highlighting its artistic nature and the challenge of capturing a three-dimensional world in a two-dimensional rectangle.
He touches on the historical evolution of photography, from early stereo photography to the rise of digital cameras and 3D technology.
Pinker emphasizes the importance of visual cognition and how the brain perceives color and shape in creating aesthetically pleasing images.
He highlights the role of framing, perspective, and depth in composing a compelling photograph.

2. The Promise and Perils of Nuclear Power

Pinker argues for the importance of nuclear power in addressing climate change, highlighting its potential for zero-emission energy production.
He challenges the public perception of nuclear power as inherently dangerous, pointing to its safety record and the availability bias that leads to an overestimation of its risks.
Pinker discusses the need for improved nuclear technology and design, citing the example of Fukushima and the need to move beyond outdated systems.
He emphasizes the role of psychology in shaping public opinion on nuclear power, particularly the availability bias and the fear of contamination.

3. The Rise and Fall of Rationality

Pinker argues that despite the prevalence of irrationality and conspiracy theories in modern society, rationality is on the rise in many areas of human life.
He highlights the application of data-driven approaches in fields like sports, policing, charity, and governance, leading to more effective decision-making.
Pinker acknowledges the concurrent rise of irrationality and conspiracy theories, particularly among groups with strong ideological biases and tribal affiliations.
He discusses the “my side bias,” which fuels the acceptance of beliefs that reinforce group identity and the dismissal of evidence that contradicts those beliefs.

4. The Power of Ideological Tribalism

Pinker explores the phenomenon of ideological tribalism, where individuals align with a specific political perspective and adopt a collection of beliefs based on that affiliation.
He emphasizes the role of the “my side bias” in reinforcing these tribal affiliations and fueling animosity towards those holding differing views.
Pinker discusses the rise of negative polarization, where political disagreement is often framed in terms of moral superiority and the demonization of opposing views.
He explores the potential role of social media, geographic segregation, and the decline of institutions that foster cross-ideological engagement in contributing to this polarization.

5. The Limits of Persuasion and the Role of Evidence

Pinker acknowledges that some individuals are impervious to rational argument and evidence, particularly when their deeply held beliefs are tied to their personal identity.
He argues that while not everyone can be persuaded, a focus on presenting evidence and engaging in reasoned discourse can still make a difference for those who are open to it.
Pinker advocates for scientists and public health officials to be more transparent about their methods and to show their work in order to foster trust and understanding.
He highlights the importance of “skeptical science” websites and platforms that address common objections and misinterpretations of scientific evidence.

6. The Psychology of Conspiracy Theories

Pinker delves into the psychology of conspiracy theories, exploring the role of tribal identity, moral values, and the allure of a compelling narrative in fueling belief.
He distinguishes between reality-based beliefs, which are grounded in evidence and subject to empirical testing, and mythological beliefs, which are held for moral or emotional reasons.
Pinker argues that many conspiracy theories fall into the category of mythological beliefs, reflecting a desire to reinforce group identity, moral convictions, or a sense of meaning.
He discusses the role of online platforms in creating echo chambers and facilitating the spread of conspiracy theories, often through a combination of tribalism and entertainment.

7. The Complexities of Memory and Belief

Pinker explores the limitations of human memory, highlighting its vulnerability to distortion, manipulation, and the tendency to create coherent narratives that may not reflect reality.
He discusses the role of “motivated reasoning,” where individuals selectively seek and interpret information to confirm their pre-existing beliefs.
Pinker also emphasizes the importance of “signal detection theory” in understanding how we make decisions based on noisy and ambiguous information, including the need to balance the risks of false positives and false negatives.
He warns against relying solely on eyewitness testimony, particularly in criminal justice cases, due to the inherent unreliability of memory and the susceptibility to suggestion and coaching.

8. The Coming Age of Symbiosis with Technology

Pinker speculates on the future of human-technology symbiosis, particularly the potential for technologies like neural implants to enhance human memory and cognitive abilities.
He expresses concerns about the potential for such technologies to be misused, particularly in the context of surveillance and control, raising questions about privacy and civil liberties.
Pinker discusses the importance of balancing the potential benefits of technological advancements with the need to ensure ethical use and mitigate risks.
He highlights the ongoing debate about artificial intelligence and its potential for sentience, expressing skepticism about the likelihood of achieving true artificial consciousness.

9. The Reality and Appeal of UFOs

Pinker examines the enduring fascination with UFOs, exploring the reasons for their enduring appeal and the psychological factors that contribute to belief.
He argues that while the possibility of extraterrestrial life cannot be definitively ruled out, a healthy dose of skepticism is warranted when considering UFO claims.
Pinker discusses the importance of “Occam’s razor,” the principle that the simplest explanation is often the most likely, in evaluating UFO claims.
He highlights the role of “Bayesian reasoning” in calibrating our belief in the face of evidence, acknowledging that even compelling evidence may not be sufficient to overcome pre-existing skepticism.

10. The “Hobbit Man” and Extraordinary Discoveries

Pinker references the discovery of the “Hobbit man” (Homo floresiensis), a small-bodied hominin species that lived on the island of Flores, as an example of a scientific breakthrough that initially faced skepticism but was ultimately validated by evidence.
He uses this example to illustrate how extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but that skepticism should not preclude the possibility of surprising discoveries.
Pinker highlights the importance of rigorous scientific investigation and the need to challenge conventional assumptions in the pursuit of knowledge.
He emphasizes the need to be open to revision of our beliefs in the face of new evidence, as embodied by the concept of “Bayesian reasoning.”

11. The Allure of Narratives and the Limits of Evidence

Pinker explores the role of narratives in shaping belief, particularly the tendency to prioritize a compelling story over empirical evidence.
He discusses the work of John Mack, a Harvard psychiatrist who investigated claims of UFO abductions, as an example of how personal narratives and emotional resonance can influence belief even in the absence of conclusive evidence.
Pinker emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and the need to evaluate claims based on evidence, not just emotional appeal or the desire for a satisfying story.
He highlights the potential for suggestibility and the influence of the therapist in contributing to the development of seemingly fantastical memories through techniques like hypnotic regression.

12. Progress, Skepticism, and the Human Condition

Pinker reiterates his argument that despite challenges and setbacks, humanity has made significant progress in reducing violence, poverty, and other forms of suffering.
He argues that this progress is not inevitable but rather the result of human ingenuity and the application of reason to solving problems.
Pinker acknowledges that many people resist the idea of progress, often due to ideological biases or a focus on negative news events rather than long-term trends.
He advocates for a more data-driven approach to understanding the world and encourages skepticism towards claims that contradict evidence and statistical trends.

13. The Challenges of Progress and the Influence of Vested Interests

Pinker discusses the challenges of achieving progress, particularly the influence of vested interests that often resist change and prioritize profit over societal well-being.
He cites examples of pharmaceutical companies, big oil, and other powerful entities that have used their influence to shape public opinion and policy to their advantage.
Pinker argues that addressing these challenges requires systemic reform, including campaign finance reform, greater transparency, and stronger regulations to hold powerful entities accountable.
He emphasizes the need for a more holistic approach to progress that considers both individual and collective well-being and addresses the challenges of global cooperation and inequality.

14. The Tragedy of the Commons and the Need for Global Cooperation

Pinker explores the concept of the “tragedy of the commons,” which highlights the challenge of balancing individual self-interest with the collective good.
He argues that addressing global challenges like climate change requires international cooperation and a shift away from the “tragedy of the commons” dynamic.
Pinker discusses the need to align individual incentives with collective goals, potentially through mechanisms like carbon taxes, international agreements, and technological innovation that makes sustainable options more cost-effective.
He emphasizes the importance of fostering a global sense of shared responsibility and a commitment to addressing common challenges.

15. The Jeffrey Epstein Conspiracy and the Limits of Knowledge

Pinker discusses the Jeffrey Epstein case as a real-world example of a conspiracy involving powerful individuals, highlighting the complexities and ethical dilemmas surrounding such situations.
He explores the reasons for the enduring interest in Epstein’s case, including the suspicion of a cover-up and the question of who else might have been implicated in his activities.
Pinker acknowledges the difficulty of obtaining definitive answers in such situations, particularly when powerful individuals are involved and evidence may be obscured or suppressed.
He emphasizes the need for transparency, accountability, and a commitment to uncovering the truth in such cases, even if it requires challenging those in positions of power.

Throughout the conversation, Pinker emphasizes the importance of skepticism, critical thinking, and the need to base our beliefs on evidence rather than simply appealing narratives or pre-existing biases. He argues that by embracing a more reasoned and evidence-based approach, we can better navigate the complexities of the modern world and work towards a more rational and just society.

5 Memorable Quotes:

“Reality is what doesn’t go away when you stop believing in it.” – Pinker, quoting science fiction writer Philip K. Dick, emphasizes the importance of grounding our beliefs in reality.
“The fact that there is no evidence for the conspiracy is proof of what a diabolical conspiracy it is.” – Pinker highlights the common characteristic of conspiracy theories, where the lack of evidence is often interpreted as proof of a cover-up.
“The best explanation for the good old days is a bad memory.” – Pinker challenges the nostalgic view that past times were inherently better, emphasizing the role of selective memory and the tendency to overlook the negative aspects of history.
“It’s not that people believe weird stuff; it’s the natural state of humanity.” – Pinker acknowledges the inherent human tendency towards belief in the extraordinary, arguing that this is a natural consequence of our evolutionary history and the need to find meaning in an uncertain world.
“We’re always pushing against the part of human nature that is happy to believe things because it’s, you know, uplifting, edifying, a good story, a satisfying myth.” – Pinker highlights the ongoing struggle between the allure of compelling narratives and the pursuit of truth-based beliefs, emphasizing the importance of fostering skepticism and critical thinking.