JRE #177 – Hamilton Morris

This podcast features Joe Rogan in conversation with Hamilton Morris, a renowned ethnobotanist and writer for Vice magazine. The discussion ranges across a diverse landscape of topics, from psychedelic experiences and the history of drug use to the potential of isolation tanks and the nature of consciousness. Here’s a breakdown of some of the major topics, with a dash of provocative, controversial, and viral elements sprinkled throughout:

Major Topics:

1. Dermorphin and the Frog Venom Theory of Autism

• Hamilton Morris discusses his encounter with the Mayaruna Indians, who traditionally use the venom of the Phyllomedusa bicolor frog for its psychoactive properties.
• The venom contains dermorphin, a potent opioid that is said to provide everlasting energy and endurance, but it lacks the typical sedative effects of opioids.
• A controversial theory once proposed that autism was caused by endogenous dermorphin produced by bacteria in the intestines of autistic children, but this theory has never been scientifically proven.
• This discussion highlights the intriguing connection between psychoactive substances, indigenous cultures, and the complexities of understanding neurobiological disorders.

2. Psychedelic Substances from Toads and the Legal Status of 5-MeO-DMT

• Joe Rogan and Hamilton Morris delve into the extraction of 5-MeO-DMT from toads, specifically the Bufo alvarius, which contains 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine, and other psychoactive compounds.
• The practice of extracting these substances is discussed, with Hamilton Morris sharing his own experiences and knowledge of different techniques.
• The legal status of 5-MeO-DMT is highlighted, noting its recent scheduling as a controlled substance after previously being readily available online.
• This topic touches upon the complex and evolving landscape of drug legality, the risks associated with experimenting with potent substances, and the potential for creative loopholes in legal frameworks.

3. Hamilton Morris’s Background and Transition to Vice Magazine

• Hamilton Morris shares his academic journey, explaining his passion for neuroscience and medicinal chemistry, which led him to study at the University of Chicago.
• He discusses his transition to Vice Magazine, where he began writing a monthly column on psychedelic drugs, contributing to a shift in the magazine’s approach to drug-related content.
• The evolution of Vice’s perspective on drugs, moving from purely experiential content to incorporating scientific aspects, is explored, reflecting broader societal changes in attitudes towards psychedelics.
• This segment highlights the intersection of academic knowledge, creative writing, and the impact of media on public perception of drug use and research.

4. The Potential of Flotation Tanks and Sensory Deprivation

• Hamilton Morris and Joe Rogan discuss flotation tanks and their history in psychedelic research, particularly John Lilly’s innovative use of them in the 1960s.
• They explore the potential benefits of sensory deprivation, highlighting its ability to promote relaxation, reduce stress, and enhance focus.
• The idea of using flotation tanks to learn new skills, such as languages or sports, is explored, with a focus on how the absence of external stimuli can enhance cognitive processing.
• This discussion delves into the realm of consciousness modification, highlighting the intriguing possibilities of manipulating sensory input to influence mental states and learning processes.

5. The Internet Blackout and the Sopa Controversy

• Joe Rogan and Hamilton Morris discuss the internet blackout organized in protest of the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and the Protect IP Act (PIPA).
• They express concerns about the potential for government overreach and control of the internet, emphasizing the importance of free access to information.
• The debate centers around the balance between protecting intellectual property and ensuring internet freedom, highlighting the growing influence of technology on societal structures and political discourse.
• This segment explores the power dynamics involved in shaping the future of the internet, raising questions about the role of governments, corporations, and individuals in navigating this evolving landscape.

6. The Debate on Veganism and Animal Welfare

• Joe Rogan expresses his perspective on veganism, acknowledging the ethical considerations but challenging the idea that all forms of animal death are inherently wrong.
• He argues that regular farming, when conducted humanely, is a natural part of the food chain, highlighting the ecological balance and the potential for humane animal husbandry.
• The discussion touches upon the complexities of animal welfare, the environmental impact of different agricultural practices, and the potential for veganism to be a tool for positive change.
• This topic explores the ethical dilemmas surrounding food choices, the potential for activism to promote animal welfare, and the challenges of finding a balance between human needs and the protection of animal life.

7. The “Best Tasting Cancer” and the Risks of Carcinogenic Compounds

• Joe Rogan and Hamilton Morris humorously discuss the carcinogenic compounds found in browned foods, particularly in French fries, potato chips, and coffee.
• They acknowledge the risks associated with excessive consumption of these items, while acknowledging their undeniable appeal and deliciousness.
• The discussion touches upon the complexities of modern diets, the prevalence of processed foods, and the challenges of navigating conflicting health advice.
• This segment delves into the tension between pleasure and health, highlighting the choices we make in navigating the modern food landscape.

8. The Legality of Psychedelic Substances and the Future of Psychedelic Research

• Hamilton Morris discusses the legal status of numerous psychedelic substances, highlighting the fact that many remain illegal despite limited evidence of harm.
• He argues for a more nuanced approach to drug policy, suggesting that research should focus on the potential benefits of psychedelics, particularly in therapeutic contexts.
• The discussion touches upon the stigma surrounding psychedelics, the outdated views that often hinder research, and the potential for these substances to reshape our understanding of consciousness and mental health.
• This segment underscores the ongoing debate surrounding drug policy and the potential for scientific breakthroughs to challenge existing paradigms.

9. The “Stoned Ape Theory” and the Role of Psychedelics in Human Evolution

• Joe Rogan and Hamilton Morris discuss the “stoned ape theory” proposed by Terence McKenna, which suggests that psychedelics played a role in human evolution, particularly in enhancing visual acuity and social bonding.
• They explore the scientific evidence for and against this theory, acknowledging the lack of definitive proof but acknowledging the intriguing possibilities.
• The discussion delves into the relationship between psychedelics, consciousness, and the evolution of human intelligence, highlighting the profound questions that these substances raise about our origins and our place in the universe.
• This segment highlights the intersection of scientific inquiry, philosophical speculation, and the enduring fascination with the origins of human consciousness.

10. The Nature of Consciousness and the Potential for Altered States

• Joe Rogan and Hamilton Morris explore the nature of consciousness, asking profound questions about the true extent of our mental capabilities.
• They delve into the potential for altered states of consciousness to unlock hidden knowledge and expand our understanding of reality.
• The discussion touches upon the role of psychedelics in facilitating these altered states, the potential for spiritual experiences, and the enduring mysteries of the human mind.
• This segment explores the frontiers of consciousness research, raising existential questions about the nature of reality, the limits of human perception, and the potential for our minds to transcend physical boundaries.

11. The History of Drug Weaponization and the CIA’s MKUltra Program

• Hamilton Morris discusses the history of drug weaponization, particularly the CIA’s MKUltra program, which explored the potential of psychedelics and other substances for mind control and interrogation.
• He delves into the unethical experiments conducted during MKUltra, highlighting the dangers of unchecked power and the potential for abuse of scientific knowledge.
• The discussion touches upon the enduring legacy of MKUltra, the ongoing debate surrounding government surveillance and mind control, and the importance of ethical considerations in scientific research.
• This segment raises critical questions about the responsibilities of governments and scientists in ensuring that scientific advancements are used ethically and for the benefit of humanity.

12. The “Cashier’s Record” and the Nature of Creativity

• Joe Rogan and Hamilton Morris discuss the “Cashier’s Record” theory, which suggests that creative inspiration originates from a collective repository of information that individuals can access through altered states of consciousness.
• They debate the validity of this theory, acknowledging its intriguing elements but ultimately favoring the view that creativity arises from the unique combination of individual experiences and mental processes.
• The discussion touches upon the role of mindfulness, meditation, and altered states in facilitating creative breakthroughs, while emphasizing the importance of individual agency in shaping artistic expression.
• This segment explores the mysteries of creativity, the potential for inspiration to come from unexpected sources, and the ongoing quest to understand the inner workings of the human imagination.

13. The Potential for Synthetic Biology and Artificial Reality

• Joe Rogan and Hamilton Morris speculate about the future of synthetic biology and artificial reality, discussing the potential for technology to create immersive virtual worlds and to alter the human experience.
• They consider the ethical implications of these advancements, raising questions about the boundaries of human identity, the nature of reality, and the potential for technology to reshape our lives.
• The discussion touches upon the rapid pace of technological progress, the convergence of science and fiction, and the need for thoughtful consideration of the long-term consequences of these innovations.
• This segment delves into the philosophical and ethical challenges of navigating a future where technology may blur the lines between the real and the virtual, raising questions about the meaning of human existence in a rapidly evolving world.

14. The Importance of Experimentation and Personal Growth

• Hamilton Morris emphasizes the importance of experimentation, both in the realm of psychedelics and in life in general, highlighting the value of pushing boundaries and expanding one’s horizons.
• He acknowledges the risks associated with experimentation, particularly with potent substances, but stresses the importance of careful exploration and the potential for personal growth through challenging experiences.
• The discussion touches upon the role of curiosity, the need for critical thinking, and the importance of making informed decisions in navigating life’s complexities.
• This segment encourages listeners to embrace a spirit of inquiry, to challenge assumptions, and to seek out experiences that expand their understanding of themselves and the world around them.

5 Memorable Quotes:

• “There used to be a theory of autism that was based on them detecting dermorphin in the urine of autistic children.” – Hamilton Morris sheds light on a fascinating but unproven theory connecting a psychoactive compound to a neurodevelopmental disorder.
• “You gotta be bold as fuck to eat mushrooms in the wild.” – Joe Rogan acknowledges the risks associated with consuming wild mushrooms, emphasizing the importance of proper identification.
• “The best way is not that government controls the Internet. That’s the worst way. That’s the worst way possible.” – Joe Rogan emphasizes the importance of internet freedom and the potential dangers of government censorship.
• “It’s not okay to kill an animal. Like, what when do you when do you draw a line? Is there any distinction?” – Joe Rogan challenges the ethical boundaries surrounding animal welfare, questioning the rationale behind choosing one life form over another.
• “I think the experience makes people more aware and more sensitive. And I only think that that’s good. I think the world can use a lot more aware and more sensitive.” – Hamilton Morris articulates his belief in the positive potential of psychedelic experiences to foster empathy and understanding.