JRE #1783 – Ben Burgis

This Joe Rogan podcast features Ben Burgis, a columnist for Jacobin Magazine, adjunct philosophy professor at Morehouse College, and host of the podcast and YouTube show “Give Them An Argument.” Burgis dives into his book “Canceling Comedians While the World Burns: A Critique of the Contemporary Left” and explores the current political climate, criticizing the left’s embrace of censorship and their focus on cultural battles over addressing systemic issues. The conversation touches upon controversial topics like socialism, free speech, cancel culture, the role of social media, and the changing nature of the left.

Major Topics and 4-Point Summary

1. The Book “Canceling Comedians While the World Burns” and the Joe Rogan Controversies

   • Burgis’ book critiques the contemporary left’s approach to cancel culture, arguing that their focus on censoring comedians and other figures distracts from addressing more significant issues.
   • The conversation references Joe Rogan’s recent controversies, highlighting the media’s tendency to sensationalize outrage and exploit controversies for ratings.
   • Burgis suggests that the economic collapse of traditional media has driven a shift towards catering to niche audiences, leading to a focus on polarizing narratives.
   • The podcast highlights the irony that while Rogan’s controversies are scrutinized, more significant issues like the potential for war between the US and Russia are often overshadowed.

2. Socialism and Economic Inequality

   • Burgis identifies as a Democratic Socialist, advocating for policies like socialized healthcare, tuition-free higher education, and a higher minimum wage.
   • The conversation compares public services like the fire department to public education, arguing that both are essential to a functioning society and should be adequately funded.
   • The podcast explores the concept of worker cooperatives as a potential alternative to the current corporate model, referencing the Mondragon Corporation in Spain as an example.
   • Burgis critiques the extreme wealth inequality in the US, citing Jeff Bezos as an example of a CEO with exorbitant wealth while his employees struggle to make ends meet.

3. The Left’s Embrace of Censorship

   • Burgis argues that the left has adopted a stance of censorship, often silencing dissenting opinions even within their own ranks.
   • The podcast explores the role of social media in facilitating the spread of right-wing views and the subsequent response of silencing these voices.
   • The conversation highlights the hypocrisy of the left supporting restrictions on private businesses while also endorsing corporate censorship on platforms like Twitter and Spotify.
   • Burgis warns of the dangers of corporate censorship, arguing that it undermines free speech and could be used to suppress critical voices on issues like labor practices or government wrongdoing.

4. The Importance of Open Dialogue and Discourse

   • The podcast emphasizes the need for open and honest dialogue, even with those who hold different perspectives.
   • Burgis criticizes the left’s tendency to demonize and silence those who disagree with them, arguing that this approach is counterproductive and undermines progress.
   • The conversation references the Gore Vidal and William Buckley debates as an example of how constructive discourse can foster understanding and challenge ideas.
   • Burgis argues that censoring opposing viewpoints weakens one’s own ideas, suggesting that ideas should be able to withstand scrutiny and debate.

5. The “Pathology of Powerlessness” and Cultural Battles

   • Burgis theorizes that the left’s embrace of censorship stems from a “pathology of powerlessness,” where they feel unable to influence real change and resort to symbolic battles.
   • The podcast highlights examples like the Democratic Socialists of America convention, where attendees focused on issues like clapping and gendered language, neglecting broader political goals.
   • Burgis argues that these symbolic battles distract from addressing systemic issues like economic inequality and police violence.
   • The conversation explores how the media often prioritizes sensationalized stories over substantive issues, further fueling the cycle of outrage and division.

6. The “Outrage Budget” and the Moralistic Approach to Politics

   • The podcast discusses the concept of an “outrage budget,” where individuals prioritize expressing outrage over addressing real issues.
   • Burgis critiques the tendency to focus on individual moralistic assessments of public figures, like comedians, neglecting broader social and political realities.
   • The conversation highlights the absurdity of attacking comedians for jokes that are often meant to be provocative or satirical, suggesting that people should not take every word literally.
   • Burgis argues that this moralistic approach to politics is counterproductive and inhibits progress on actual societal issues.

7. Social Media and the Distortion of Information

   • The podcast explores the detrimental effects of social media on communication and discourse, highlighting the ease of spreading misinformation and the lack of context in online interactions.
   • Burgis cites the “Social Dilemma” documentary as an example of how social media algorithms can amplify extreme views and polarize audiences.
   • The conversation discusses how the immediate feedback loop of likes and retweets can be addictive and encourage individuals to prioritize outrage and validation over reasoned discourse.
   • Burgis argues that social media fosters an environment where people are more likely to attack individuals they disagree with, rather than engaging in meaningful dialogue.

8. The Transgender Issue in Sports and the Limits of Identity Politics

   • The podcast delves into the controversy surrounding transgender athletes competing in women’s sports, examining the biological advantages associated with male puberty.
   • Burgis acknowledges the complexity of the issue, recognizing both the importance of inclusivity for transgender individuals and the need for fairness in competition.
   • The conversation highlights the difficulty of finding a compromise that balances these competing values, particularly when it comes to setting hormonal requirements or other eligibility criteria.
   • The podcast explores the broader implications of this issue for the definition of gender, particularly in a society where identity politics are increasingly prominent.

9. The Importance of Systemic Change and the Limitations of Individual Action

   • Burgis emphasizes the need for systemic change to address issues like economic inequality and police brutality, arguing that individual actions can only achieve so much.
   • The conversation highlights the ease with which corporations can engage in performative activism, like issuing statements of support for Black Lives Matter, without implementing meaningful change.
   • Burgis critiques the left’s tendency to focus on symbolic actions, like taking down statues, while neglecting to address the root causes of systemic injustices.
   • The podcast stresses that true progress requires a focus on changing policies and institutions, rather than solely relying on individual expressions of solidarity or outrage.

Memorable Quotes

• “The most important thing in the world in media is ratings. And, unfortunately, outrage is what sells.” – Burgis on the media’s profit incentive to sensationalize controversies.
• “If one person has more than another just because they chose to work harder, then, like, that’s one thing. But what bothers me is when you have these massive inequalities that have huge effects in people’s lives that are linked to things that aren’t under their control.” – Burgis on the problematic nature of wealth inequality.
• “The answer to bad ideas is not silencing those ideas. It’s better ideas.” – Burgis on the importance of free speech and constructive debate.
• “It’s not whether or not I believe in God. But if you live your life like God exists, you will have a higher quality of life.” – Burgis quoting Jordan Peterson on the potential benefits of living a morally upright life, regardless of religious belief.
• “We need more friends than we need enemies.” – Burgis on the importance of fostering understanding and dialogue over division and conflict.