JRE #1800 – Gavin de Becker

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience features Gavin de Becker, a renowned expert on violence prediction and management. His insights into personal safety, security, and the psychology of threats are explored. The podcast delves into de Becker’s unique background, his work with high-profile individuals, and his insights into the complexities of fame, security breaches, and the misuse of power by governments and corporations. Underlying themes explore the importance of personal responsibility, the dangers of blind faith, and the need for critical thinking in a world increasingly driven by misinformation and fear.

Major Topics

1. Gavin de Becker’s Life and Career:

   1. A turbulent childhood marked by violence and trauma, starting with his mother shooting his stepfather in front of him.
   2. An early fascination with assassination prevention sparked by John F. Kennedy’s death.
   3. A serendipitous path to working for Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, which provided valuable experience in public figure protection.
   4. The development of Gavin de Becker and Associates, a consulting firm that provides threat assessment and security services.

2. The Pressures of Fame:

   1. The unnaturalness of fame and the psychological toll it takes on individuals, particularly in the face of constant scrutiny and attention.
   2. The tendency for celebrities to turn to substances like alcohol and drugs as coping mechanisms for the intense pressures of fame.
   3. The distortion of relationships due to fame, where interactions are often pre-conditioned by a pre-existing public image.
   4. The feeling of entitlement that many people experience when interacting with famous individuals.

3. The Evolution of Threat Assessment:

   1. The shift from focusing solely on direct threats to recognizing a broader range of pre-incident indicators, such as obsessive behavior and targeted travel.
   2. The development of a vast library of threat material, including disturbing items like body parts and animal remains, sent to public figures.
   3. The importance of avoiding unplanned encounters, as individuals who pursue them are often motivated by something inappropriate or dangerous.
   4. The recognition that mental illness plays a significant role in many threats, urging for a more nuanced approach to identifying potential danger.

4. The Jeff Bezos Phone Hack:

   1. The involvement of de Becker in the investigation of how Jeff Bezos’s phone was hacked and the subsequent connection to the Saudi government.
   2. The use of sophisticated spyware like Pegasus 2, which allows governments to gain full control of smartphones and access all data.
   3. The challenge of protecting privacy in a world where governments have powerful tools for surveillance and data extraction.
   4. The importance of using secure communication apps like Signal, which offer features like disappearing messages, but even these are not foolproof against advanced spyware.

5. The Misuse of Fear and Power:

   1. The history of governments using fear to control populations, ranging from the fear of “the other” to the fear of terrorism and now the fear of viruses.
   2. The manipulation of information and the creation of false narratives by governments and corporations, particularly in the context of pandemics.
   3. The role of corporate media in perpetuating these narratives, often driven by financial incentives and a desire to control the flow of information.
   4. The danger of mandates and the erosion of personal freedoms when governments seek to assume greater control, particularly in the context of public health emergencies.

6. The Ivermectin Controversy:

   1. The suppression of information about potential treatments for COVID-19, such as ivermectin, due to their perceived threat to the emergency use authorization for vaccines.
   2. The coordinated effort by corporate media to portray ivermectin as a “horse dewormer” despite its long history of safe and effective use in humans.
   3. The potential for financial incentives to drive the narrative around COVID-19 treatments, with pharmaceutical companies standing to profit immensely from vaccines.
   4. The importance of critical thinking and questioning authority in a world where information is often controlled and manipulated.

7. The Importance of Intuition:

   1. The central message of de Becker’s book, “The Gift of Fear,” which emphasizes the importance of listening to one’s intuition and recognizing early warning signs of danger.
   2. The value of recognizing when you are being persuaded into a dangerous situation and setting clear boundaries to protect yourself.
   3. The inherent capacity of humans to detect potential threats, just like other animals, but often overridden by fear, denial, or a misplaced sense of trust.
   4. The crucial role of intuition in navigating relationships and identifying potentially dangerous individuals.

8. The Debate on Self-Defense:

   1. The potential dangers of model mugging classes, which may give people a false sense of confidence in their physical abilities.
   2. The importance of a deep understanding of martial arts principles, particularly jujitsu, for effective self-defense, as opposed to quick fixes.
   3. The value of recognizing that most predators rely on persuasion, not brute force, and that early intuitions are crucial for avoiding dangerous situations.
   4. The need for realistic training in high-stress situations, such as those involving attack dogs or simulated shootings, to prepare for real-life encounters.

9. The Role of Weapons:

   1. The risks associated with keeping firearms in the home, particularly in the context of accidental shootings and the potential for misuse in high-stress situations.
   2. The promise of smart guns, which use biometric authentication to prevent unauthorized use and reduce the risk of accidents.
   3. The value of pepper spray as a non-lethal self-defense option, particularly for women.
   4. The need for a nuanced approach to weapons, acknowledging their potential for harm and the importance of training, safety measures, and situational awareness.

10. The Future of Social Media and Free Speech:

    1. The potential for an uncensored social media platform that would allow for open discourse and the sharing of diverse perspectives.
    2. The dangers of censorship and the silencing of dissenting voices, which can lead to the suppression of truth and the reinforcement of misinformation.
    3. The need for a responsible approach to social media, encouraging critical thinking, media literacy, and a healthy skepticism towards information.
    4. The importance of questioning authority and challenging the narratives presented by governments, corporations, and social media platforms.

Memorable Quotes

• “Sometimes when somebody wants to say something shitty about me, they say, oh, his whole training is that he had a bad childhood. Could we count the 55 years between then and now perhaps?” – de Becker humorously deflects criticism based on his past experiences.
• “The experts said, ‘oh, we tried that. That doesn’t work.’ Yeah. The beginner says, ‘why do they do it that way? How about this way?’ That’s been my whole career.” – de Becker emphasizes the value of questioning established norms and embracing a beginner’s mindset.
• “If a government wants you, from an informational point of view. Once again, into your phone, they have you.” – de Becker highlights the powerful surveillance capabilities of governments and the challenges of maintaining privacy in the digital age.
• “Anytime that word is is floated, that something is dangerous, what you wanna hear that as is it’s dangerous to government. That’s who it’s dangerous to.” – de Becker warns about the manipulation of fear and the use of the term “dangerous” to control populations.
• “You almost don’t have to [change the constitution] because major media companies have done it anyway.” – de Becker expresses concern about the increasing control of information by major media companies, effectively acting as gatekeepers to public discourse.