JRE #1877 – Jann Wenner

This podcast features an engaging conversation between Joe Rogan and Jann Wenner, the founder of Rolling Stone magazine. It offers a captivating look back at the cultural landscape of the 1960s and 1970s, examining the rise of rock and roll, the impact of psychedelic drugs, and the evolution of American society. Wenner candidly discusses his own experiences with these forces, along with his perspectives on the Vietnam War, the political scene, and the legacy of Rolling Stone. Provocative topics include the influence of Hunter S. Thompson, the complexities of fame, and the enduring impact of the counterculture. Underlying themes explore the role of music and media in shaping social consciousness, the dangers of unchecked greed, and the search for meaning in a rapidly changing world.

Major Topics in the Podcast

1. The 1960s and the Counterculture:
   • Wenner describes how his generation came of age during a period of disillusionment, witnessing the Vietnam War, racial injustice, and the assassination of President Kennedy. This disillusionment fueled a desire for change and a rejection of traditional values.
   • He credits the rise of rock and roll and psychedelic drugs as catalysts for the cultural revolution of the 1960s, emphasizing their role in challenging established norms and fostering a sense of unity among young people.
   • The Vietnam War, in particular, galvanized a generation to question authority and government policies, leading to widespread protests and anti-war sentiment.
   • Wenner argues that the cultural shift of the 1960s was one of the most significant in human history, shaping everything from music and fashion to social activism and political discourse.
2. The Birth of Rolling Stone:
   • Wenner founded Rolling Stone in 1967, at a time when mainstream media largely ignored rock and roll, dismissing it as a passing fad or a threat to societal norms.
   • The magazine emerged as a vital voice for the counterculture, providing a platform for artists like Bob Dylan and the Rolling Stones to express their views and connect with their audience.
   • Rolling Stone became a crucial conduit for communication within the generation, serving as a shared space for values, ideas, and experiences. Wenner refers to it as a “tribal telegraph.”
   • The magazine’s success was fueled by its commitment to authenticity, covering not only music but also social and political issues that resonated with its readership.
3. Hunter S. Thompson:
   • Hunter S. Thompson, a pioneering journalist and counterculture icon, played a pivotal role in shaping the identity of Rolling Stone, becoming synonymous with the magazine’s spirit of rebellion, adventure, and social commentary.
   • Wenner describes their close friendship and collaboration, highlighting Thompson’s unique writing style and his commitment to making the magazine a success.
   • Thompson’s coverage of the 1972 McGovern presidential campaign, including his iconic “Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail,” captured the disillusionment and cynicism of the era, resonating deeply with young people.
   • Wenner acknowledges the complexities of Thompson’s life, including his struggles with addiction and his ultimate decline, but emphasizes his lasting influence on journalism and culture.
4. The Power of Psychedelic Drugs:
   • Wenner openly discusses his experiences with psychedelic drugs, particularly LSD, and their transformative impact on his worldview, his love for music, and his connection to nature.
   • He views psychedelics as a means of expanding consciousness, challenging social norms, and fostering a sense of interconnectedness. He credits LSD with deepening his appreciation for music and the natural world.
   • Wenner contrasts the positive effects of LSD with the destructive potential of cocaine and speed, arguing that the latter can lead to a spiral of addiction and self-destruction.
   • He advocates for the decriminalization of marijuana and the legalization of psychedelics, arguing that their potential benefits outweigh the risks and that current drug laws disproportionately harm marginalized communities.
5. The 1970s and the Rise of Reagan:
   • Wenner reflects on the shift in cultural and political sentiment from the rebellious spirit of the 1960s to the more conservative era of Ronald Reagan in the 1980s.
   • He describes the political turmoil of the 1970s, including the Watergate scandal and the rise of Jimmy Carter, who embraced a more progressive and counterculture-friendly approach to politics.
   • The emergence of Reagan ushered in a new era of conservative politics, characterized by a focus on economic growth, a strong military presence, and a rejection of the social and political changes of the previous decade.
   • Wenner argues that the cultural and political landscape of the 1980s was a direct reaction to the counterculture of the 1960s and 1970s, representing a conservative backlash against the social progress and liberalism of the previous era.
6. The War on Drugs:
   • Wenner criticizes the War on Drugs, arguing that it has been a failure, resulting in mass incarceration, particularly of people of color, and the criminalization of nonviolent drug offenses.
   • He highlights the hypocrisy of the system, pointing out the vast discrepancy in sentencing for crack cocaine versus powder cocaine, a policy that disproportionately impacts Black communities.
   • Wenner argues that the War on Drugs has been driven by fear and misinformation, rather than evidence-based policy, and that it has done little to address the underlying issues of addiction and poverty.
   • He advocates for a more humane and evidence-based approach to drug policy, focusing on harm reduction, treatment, and decriminalization.
7. The Role of Money and Power:
   • Wenner expresses concern about the increasing concentration of wealth and the influence of money in politics, arguing that it undermines democracy and creates a system that benefits the wealthy at the expense of the working class.
   • He criticizes the Republican Party for its policies that favor the wealthy, such as tax cuts for the rich and restrictions on social programs for the poor, describing these policies as cruel and un-Christian.
   • Wenner believes that a fairer distribution of wealth is essential for a more just and equitable society, advocating for a progressive tax system that ensures that the wealthy contribute a greater share to society.
   • He acknowledges the challenges of implementing such a system, but emphasizes the need for vigilance in preventing corruption and ensuring that funds are used effectively to benefit all citizens.
8. The Future of America:
   • Wenner expresses deep concern about the direction of American politics, warning of the growing influence of extremist views and the erosion of democratic values.
   • He views the Republican Party as a threat to social progress and environmental protection, citing their opposition to abortion rights, LGBTQ+ rights, and climate change action.
   • Wenner believes that a more progressive and compassionate approach to governance is essential for addressing the challenges of climate change, economic inequality, and social justice.
   • He emphasizes the need for vigilance in defending democratic values and resisting attempts to roll back hard-won freedoms and rights.
9. The Impact of Technology:
   • Wenner acknowledges the transformative power of technology, but expresses concern about its potential for misuse and its impact on privacy, surveillance, and the dissemination of misinformation.
   • He highlights the pervasiveness of technology in modern life, particularly through smartphones and the internet, and its ability to track and monitor our every move.
   • Wenner argues for the need to regulate the internet and ensure that it is used responsibly, promoting truth and fairness in the dissemination of information.
   • He believes that the future of technology will involve a deeper integration of technology into our bodies, raising concerns about the potential for manipulation and control.
10. Fame and its Perils:
    • Wenner discusses the complexities of fame and the challenges of navigating its demands, highlighting how it can distort perspectives and lead to self-destructive behavior, as illustrated by the lives of Hunter S. Thompson, John Belushi, and other figures from the counterculture era.
    • He argues that fame is a drug that can be intoxicating and addictive, especially when it involves a constant barrage of attention and expectations.
    • Wenner suggests that those who achieve fame need to develop coping mechanisms and strategies for maintaining a sense of balance and grounding. He emphasizes the importance of physical exercise and focusing on meaningful pursuits beyond fame.
    • He contrasts the different ways in which people handle fame, highlighting those who embrace the public spotlight with those who prefer to maintain a sense of privacy and mystery.
11. The Importance of Truth and Compassion:
    • Wenner emphasizes the importance of truth and compassion as guiding principles for both individuals and society as a whole. He believes that a more just and equitable world is possible through a greater emphasis on empathy, understanding, and the pursuit of common good.
    • He argues that the greatest challenges facing humanity are climate change and economic inequality, and that addressing these issues requires a shift in perspective and a commitment to shared solutions.
    • Wenner advocates for a more regulated capitalist economy, acknowledging the need for balance between individual ambition and the well-being of society.
    • He sees the potential for psychedelics to foster a more compassionate and interconnected world, challenging conventional ways of thinking and fostering a deeper understanding of ourselves and our relationships with others.

Memorable Quotes from the Podcast

• “I think I start my life, my book out at time in the fifties in the Eisenhower where none of all of this what we see today was conceivable. I mean, little carrying around telephones in your pocket or being able to talk to people you know, on your wristwatch.”
• “…our parents, my parents grew up at a time when we fought the United States fought a World War for justice, democracy, defeat the bagcasters of victorious, you know, the army the army started integrating America, more European fashion and command. My generation, our generation grew up with the war in Vietnam, a war we were ashamed of. Didn’t wanna fight. It split the country in 2. I mean, so we’ve had an entirely different experience.”
• “…I think psychedelics were tremendously important in my life to me. I wrote it right about it openly in the book, I thought. You know, why why cover that up? I mean, I took a lot of acid when I was in college. I learned a lot from it. It changed my worldview. It it deepen my love of rock and roll and and deepen my love of just the natural world around me. You know? It just I don’t know. Everything’s so cool and so precious and so unusual. Every little bit of it. You know, it’s a wonderment enhancer.”
• “…the the threat of rock and roll, which was always there was something deeply sexual about it. And then it was also long hair and all these little things, which I mean, long hair. I mean, come on. I mean, you I know Joe, you don’t get this analogy. But, I mean, can you imagine people didn’t they were you were discriminated because you’re a hairstyle.”
• “…every economic policy they advocate comes at the expense of the poor people. Whether it’s abortion, welfare, medical care, the big these big expenses, like tax policies, it’s never expensive. The rich is expensive. The poor. And these people are supposed to espouse Christian values. I find that the most unChristian party in the United States.”