JRE #1911 – Mark Boal

by

15-Dec-22







Joe Rogan Podcast #1911 – Mark Boal

This podcast features Mark Boal, a screenwriter, producer, and journalist, known for his work on films like “The Hurt Locker” and “Zero Dark Thirty”. Boal discusses his latest project, the series “Echo 3”, available on Apple TV+, and dives deep into his philosophy on storytelling, authenticity, and the complexities of portraying war, masculinity, and the human condition. Provocative topics include the impact of social media on authenticity, the ethical considerations of portraying sensitive topics like war, and the importance of representing a more nuanced version of masculinity. Underlying themes explore the power of individual experiences, the responsibility of storytellers, and the challenges of navigating a world saturated with information and competing narratives.

Major Topics and 4-point Summaries

1. Authenticity in Storytelling:

  • Boal emphasizes the rarity of true authenticity in storytelling, especially in media where commercial interests often prioritize crafting a persona or selling a product.
  • He argues that authenticity stems from digging deep into personal experiences and finding ways to translate them into something relatable, even if they seem hyper-specific.
  • Boal illustrates this point by discussing his experience coming back from Baghdad and how it inspired the scene in “The Hurt Locker” where Sergeant James feels dislocated in a supermarket, overwhelmed by the mundane after the chaos of war.
  • He believes that authentic storytelling is essential for creating a sense of suspension of disbelief and connecting with audiences on a deeper level.

2. Responsibility in War Storytelling:

  • Boal recognizes the immense responsibility that comes with portraying war, especially when real people are still in harm’s way.
  • He discusses how he carefully avoided depicting certain tactics or classified information in “The Hurt Locker” to prevent harm or putting anyone at risk.
  • Boal also highlights the responsibility to portray truth and history accurately, avoiding irresponsible depictions that sanitize or distort reality, particularly when it comes to violence and its consequences.
  • He criticizes the common practice of creating feel-good movies about war, arguing that it sanitizes the reality of the devastation and human cost.

3. The Challenges of Authentic Storytelling in a Corporate Environment:

  • Boal shares how he has largely avoided working with major studios, preferring to create his films independently, which allows him more creative control.
  • He acknowledges the temptation to create larger-scale, blockbuster films but believes that it comes with a higher expectation for commercial success, potentially compromising authenticity.
  • Boal observes that the film industry often relies on established formulas and playbooks, making it difficult to push boundaries and embrace a more realistic and authentic approach.
  • He compares the filmmaking process to a factory, highlighting the limitations imposed by the need to satisfy commercial demands and generate revenue.

4. Authenticity in the Digital Age and the Rise of Social Media:

  • Boal expresses concern about the impact of social media on authenticity, where individuals often self-censor and modify their online personas to gain favor with certain groups.
  • He suggests that the constant feedback loop and pressure to perform online can lead to a homogenization of perspectives and stifle independent thought.
  • Boal contrasts this with the authentic, unfiltered nature of podcasts, where conversations are less influenced by external pressures and allow for genuine exchanges of ideas.
  • He believes that the success of his work, which emphasizes authenticity, speaks to a growing audience that values genuine connection and honest storytelling.

5. Nuance and Complexity in “Echo 3”:

  • Boal explains that “Echo 3” is designed as a 10-hour movie, challenging the typical structure of TV shows that prioritize episodic cliffhangers.
  • He aims to create a more complex and immersive experience, allowing the story to unfold gradually and challenging audiences to engage with the nuances of the plot and characters.
  • Boal incorporates themes of family, relationships, honesty, and masculinity, weaving these elements into the story of a kidnapped scientist and her special forces brother and husband.
  • He also seeks to challenge simplistic notions of good and evil by delving into the motivations and perspectives of different factions involved in the story, adding layers of complexity and promoting a more nuanced understanding of the conflict.

6. Depicting Masculinity in a Changing World:

  • Boal discusses the challenges of depicting masculinity in a contemporary context, where traditional portrayals often fall into stereotypes or perpetuate harmful tropes.
  • He aims to present a more nuanced and complex view of masculinity, showcasing characters who embody classical masculine traits like bravery and stoicism while also demonstrating emotional vulnerability and intelligence.
  • Boal acknowledges the ongoing conversation surrounding “toxic masculinity” but believes that the culture needs more portrayals of men who are both masculine and prosocial, challenging the misconception that these qualities are mutually exclusive.
  • He argues that showcasing these complexities in his work can resonate with audiences who are seeking a more authentic representation of masculinity.

7. The Impact of Technology on Society:

  • Boal expresses concern about the rapid pace of technological advancement, particularly in the realm of human neural interfaces, and its potential impact on human connection and communication.
  • He discusses Elon Musk’s concept of a “neural link” and its potential to fundamentally alter how humans interact with the world, potentially leading to a more homogenized and less nuanced society.
  • Boal worries that the increasing reliance on technology could further erode privacy and deepen the existing divide in perspectives and understanding.
  • He envisions a future where individuals may have to choose between embracing these advancements or opting out, creating potential societal divisions based on technological adoption.

8. The Ancient Apocalypse Theory:

  • Boal discusses the “Younger Dryas Impact Theory”, which proposes that a catastrophic event, possibly a comet impact, occurred around 12,800 years ago, potentially causing a major setback in human civilization.
  • This theory suggests that there may have been a more advanced civilization before this event, explaining the presence of unexplained ancient structures and suggesting that humans have existed for far longer than previously thought.
  • Boal highlights the concept of parallel evolution, suggesting that different types of humanoids may have coexisted in the past, some more technologically advanced, and that we may have wiped out other species through competition or genocide.
  • This theory raises questions about human nature, suggesting that violence and competition may be ingrained in our history, and that our current societal structures may be the result of a reset after a catastrophic event.

9. The Stone Ape Theory:

  • Boal delves into the “Stone Ape Theory”, which proposes that psilocybin mushrooms played a significant role in the evolution of the human brain.
  • The theory suggests that early hominids may have consumed psilocybin mushrooms, which induced synesthesia and altered their perception of reality, potentially contributing to the development of language and complex thought.
  • This theory challenges traditional explanations of human brain evolution and suggests that psychedelics may have played a more significant role in our development than previously understood.
  • Boal highlights the potential of psychedelics as a tool for self-exploration and personal growth, and discusses their emerging use in therapeutic settings for conditions like PTSD and addiction.

10. The Importance of Cultural Awareness and Personal Responsibility:

  • Boal argues for the need for increased cultural awareness and personal responsibility in relation to psychedelics, particularly in light of their long history of stigma and prohibition.
  • He believes that these substances have the potential for both positive and negative effects, emphasizing the need for education, safe use guidelines, and a greater understanding of their impact on human consciousness.
  • Boal critiques the current approach to regulating psychedelics, arguing that prohibition has been driven by fear and ignorance, not by evidence-based understanding.
  • He suggests that a more nuanced approach, focusing on education and personal responsibility, would be more beneficial and allow for greater access to the potential benefits of psychedelics.

11. The Importance of Nuance and Ambiguity in Storytelling:

  • Boal emphasizes the importance of nuance and ambiguity in storytelling, arguing that it allows for a more complex and authentic portrayal of human experience.
  • He criticizes the tendency toward simplification and single narratives, especially in media and online discourse, which can lead to polarization and a lack of understanding.
  • Boal believes that embracing ambiguity and allowing for multiple perspectives is essential for creating stories that challenge audiences and encourage critical thinking.
  • He highlights the need for a shift in focus from seeking quick narratives and simplistic answers to embracing the complexity and uncertainty of the human condition.

12. The Role of Storytelling in a World Overwhelmed by Information:

  • Boal acknowledges the challenge of navigating a world saturated with information, where it is increasingly difficult to discern truth from falsehood and to develop a coherent understanding of reality.
  • He believes that storytelling, especially when rooted in authenticity and nuance, plays a crucial role in helping audiences navigate this complex landscape.
  • Boal argues that storytellers have a responsibility to challenge audiences, to encourage critical thinking, and to provide a framework for understanding the complexities of the world.
  • He emphasizes the need for storytellers to resist the temptation to simplify or distort reality, and instead to embrace the ambiguity and complexity of the human condition.

13. The Importance of Cultivating a Garden of Thought:

  • Boal describes his creative process as a constant cultivation of ideas and experiences, emphasizing the importance of staying open to new perspectives and influences.
  • He believes that avoiding self-limiting narratives and embracing a broader range of ideas is essential for fostering authentic storytelling.
  • Boal highlights the importance of sifting through information and experiences, discerning what resonates as authentic and meaningful, and avoiding the temptation to simply copy or repeat existing narratives.
  • He acknowledges that this process involves a degree of faith in oneself and a willingness to embrace uncertainty and the unexpected.

14. The Power of Excellence and Obsession:

  • Boal expresses his admiration for individuals who demonstrate excellence and obsession in their chosen fields, regardless of the specific area.
  • He sees this dedication as a form of creativity, highlighting the commitment, discipline, and skill required to achieve mastery.
  • Boal believes that these individuals embody a drive to push boundaries and to strive for something beyond the ordinary, inspiring those around them with their determination.
  • He discusses how this applies to combat sports, where athletes dedicate themselves to pushing their physical and mental limits, showcasing remarkable feats of resilience and human potential.

15. The Importance of Storytelling in Understanding the World:

  • Boal emphasizes the role of storytelling in providing context and understanding for complex events and human experiences.
  • He argues that without a narrative framework, audiences may struggle to fully grasp the significance of events, especially those involving violence, conflict, or personal struggles.
  • Boal believes that effective storytelling can illuminate the human condition, highlighting the complexities of emotions, motivations, and decision-making processes.
  • He believes that by sharing stories in a compelling and authentic way, storytellers can offer a deeper understanding of the world and its inhabitants.

16. The Importance of Authenticity and Connection:

  • Boal highlights the importance of authenticity and genuine connection in storytelling, emphasizing the power of sharing personal experiences and finding ways to resonate with audiences.
  • He believes that authentic storytelling can foster a sense of understanding and empathy, bridging divides and creating meaningful connections between individuals.
  • Boal emphasizes the power of storytelling to challenge preconceived notions, to promote open-mindedness, and to inspire a sense of shared humanity.
  • He argues that by embracing authenticity and fostering connection, storytellers can contribute to a more meaningful and compassionate world.

Memorable Quotes

  • “It shouldn’t be super rare though. Right? That’s what’s confusing. Like, people should just be authentic in themselves.”
  • “I think that anybody in the media has a huge sense of responsibility that comes with the territory.”
  • “Sometimes if you just dig deep enough, probably there’s a chance anyway. That, like, your experiences or my experiences, if you’re really being honest about them, and this goes back to where we started this conversation. Will translate to other people.”
  • “I think we’re all responsible. I think whether you’re doing a topic like that where I tend to do real life stuff, although the this most recent thing is fictional. I I think that anybody in the media has a huge sense of responsibility that comes with the territory.”
  • “I think there’s a hunger for that. It’s sort of what I think is part of why you’re Again, this is not to take anything away from, like, your intellect or your humor or anything, but I think it’s part of why, like, people gravitate to you is because you represent, I think, a certain kind of masculinity, which is rare.”


 

Leave a Comment