JRE #1955 – Cliff Gray

15-Mar-23

Podcast Topics: #1955 – Cliff Gray

This Joe Rogan podcast features Cliff Gray, a former financial trader turned wilderness outfitter, hunting guide, and YouTuber. It’s a captivating journey through Gray’s unique life choices, delving into the contrasting worlds of finance and wilderness, the challenges and rewards of outfitting, and the fascinating intricacies of the natural world, particularly the presence of wolves and other predators. Provocative discussions arise around the ethics of hunting, the societal disconnect from nature, and the impact of rewilding initiatives.

1. The Transition from Finance to Outfitting

   • Gray’s upbringing in a rural area with a father who was a cattle rancher and outfitter provided early exposure to the wilderness.
   • Despite pursuing a traditional education and career in finance, Gray ultimately felt a strong pull towards a life outdoors.
   • He made a bold decision to leave the financial sector, even with a supportive wife and family who had encouraged his success in finance.
   • Gray’s transition involved a combination of prior experience, a willingness to take a step back in his career, and an entrepreneurial spirit that led him to buy and revitalize an outfitting business in Colorado.

2. The Grueling World of Wilderness Outfitting

   • Gray’s outfitting business specialized in deep wilderness hunts, often involving packing into remote areas with horses and mules.
   • The demanding nature of the work required extensive knowledge of the terrain, wildlife, and skills like packing, riding, and handling livestock.
   • Gray’s guides, many of whom were Amish, possessed a unique work ethic and hands-on skillset honed through a different kind of education.
   • The podcast delves into the fascinating world of the Amish community, including their views on technology and their commitment to a traditional lifestyle.

3. The Debate on Wolf Reintroduction in Colorado

   • Gray shares his perspective on the controversial wolf reintroduction program in Colorado, highlighting the complexity of rewilding efforts and the potential consequences for both wildlife and humans.
   • He criticizes the ballot initiative that forced the Colorado Parks and Wildlife (CPW) to undertake the wolf transplant, arguing that it bypassed the expertise of wildlife biologists and conservation experts.
   • Gray expresses concern about the lack of a concrete plan for managing wolf populations in Colorado, particularly with the potential for conflict with livestock, pets, and the existing ecosystem.
   • The discussion explores the role of public opinion in wildlife management, comparing the disconnect between those advocating for wolves and those who would be directly impacted by their presence.

4. The Allure and Challenges of Hunting

   • Gray passionately describes the excitement and challenges of hunting, particularly bowhunting elk, highlighting the physical and mental demands of the pursuit.
   • The podcast explores the ethical considerations of hunting, including the importance of responsible practices, understanding the ecosystem, and respecting the animals being hunted.
   • Gray discusses the societal disconnect between those who hunt for sustenance and those who view hunting as ethically problematic, emphasizing the importance of education and understanding.
   • The conversation touches on the importance of mentorship in hunting, the value of learning from experienced hunters, and the rewarding nature of passing on hunting traditions.

5. The Role of Technology in Hunting

   • Gray acknowledges the positive impact of technological advancements in hunting gear, such as lightweight tents, layering systems, and improved optics.
   • However, he also expresses concern about the potential for technology to create a barrier for entry into hunting, intimidating new hunters with the perceived need for expensive gear.
   • The discussion delves into the complexities of archery equipment and the specialized knowledge required for effective bowhunting.
   • Gray encourages viewers to embrace hunting as a rewarding and accessible activity, regardless of their level of experience or financial resources.

6. The Future of Hunting and Conservation

   • Gray reflects on the changing landscape of hunting, noting the increasing popularity and the need for responsible management of wildlife populations.
   • He encourages listeners to engage with the hunting community, learn about conservation efforts, and consider hunting as a way to connect with nature and sustain a healthy ecosystem.
   • The conversation underscores the importance of finding a balance between human activities and wildlife preservation, recognizing that both can coexist with responsible stewardship.
   • Gray’s passion for the outdoors and his insights into the complexities of hunting and conservation offer a compelling perspective on the future of these interconnected elements.

7. The Metaverse and the Real World

   • Gray expresses his lack of interest in the metaverse, emphasizing his preference for real-world experiences like hunting, fishing, and exploring nature.
   • The podcast explores the allure of virtual reality and its potential to simulate experiences, while highlighting the tangible rewards and sensory engagement of the natural world.
   • Gray’s perspective provides a counterpoint to the growing popularity of virtual reality, advocating for a connection to the physical world and the value of hands-on activities.
   • He encourages listeners to embrace the diversity of real-world experiences, emphasizing the unique richness and rewards offered by the natural world.

8. The Fascinating World of Marine Life

   • Gray shares his passion for fishing, particularly tarpon fishing, describing the unique challenges and rewards of this sport.
   • The discussion highlights the mysterious nature of marine life, particularly the communication and herding behaviors of tarpon and other fish species.
   • Gray emphasizes the importance of catch and release practices in fishing, recognizing the value of conserving fish populations and preserving the sport for future generations.
   • He underscores the wonder of the ocean and its diverse ecosystem, encouraging listeners to explore the depths of the sea and the remarkable creatures it harbors.

9. The Evolution of Artificial Intelligence

   • Gray discusses the rapid advancements in artificial intelligence (AI), specifically the new ChatGPT 4.0, and its potential implications for various sectors.
   • He explores the capabilities of ChatGPT, including its ability to pass exams, translate languages, and even understand humor in images.
   • The conversation touches on the ethical and societal implications of AI, emphasizing the need for careful consideration as technology continues to evolve.
   • Gray’s perspective provides a unique perspective from a perspective outside the tech world, highlighting the importance of maintaining a balance between technological advancement and human connection to the natural world.

Memorable Quotes

• “Did I choose the right thing? I don’t know, but I’m happy. So I guess if you’re happy, you chose the right thing, but there’s no right thing. There’s just life and decisions.”
• “It feels like going back in time, man. You know? I mean, that’s why I mean, honestly, Joe, by the time I sold… majority of my crew is Amish.”
• “It’s just bullshit. You know what I mean? How was it getting passed though? Well, it got passed by a ballot initiative. You know, that the ballot initiative is how wolves got, you know, got to the situation there are. Now, and basically what the Bal initiative did is it forced the CPW to take on this goal of transplanting. The the wolves. So it wasn’t the CPW’s choice.”
• “Dogs are 100% gonna get eaten. Right. If you have a cute golden retriever like mine. You leave them outside. Like, guess what? That dog’s dead.”
• “I don’t think hunting’s for everybody, but I think it’s for a lot of people. You know, I just think they don’t know it.”