JRE #196 - Matt Paxton

3/14/2012

Joe Rogan Experience Podcast – #196 – Matt Paxton

This podcast features Joe Rogan in conversation with Matt Paxton, a professional organizer and star of the reality show “Hoarders.” Paxton shares his unique perspective on the human condition, drawn from his experiences cleaning up extreme clutter and working with individuals grappling with hoarding disorder. The conversation delves into themes of personal struggle, addiction, redemption, and the importance of compassion and understanding in the face of unusual and often challenging situations.

Topics:

Matt Paxton’s Background and Journey:

1. **Gambling Addiction and Rock Bottom:** Paxton candidly reveals his struggles with gambling addiction, culminating in a deeply personal and dramatic rock bottom experience.

Paxton recounts hitting rock bottom at age 25, losing everything to gambling and finding himself with only $5 in his pocket.
He describes being beaten up by a bookie after failing to pay a debt, marking a turning point in his life.
He credits this harrowing experience with forcing him to confront his addiction and begin the process of recovery.
The story highlights the depths of despair and the strength required to rebuild oneself after a devastating setback.

Hoarding Disorder and Its Underlying Causes:

2. **Understanding Hoarding Disorder:** Paxton challenges the misconception that hoarders are simply lazy or crazy, emphasizing the complex psychological roots of the condition.

He asserts that hoarding disorder stems from traumatic events and poor decision-making patterns, often triggered by a deeply impactful past experience.
He highlights how hoarding can be a coping mechanism, allowing individuals to compartmentalize and avoid confronting difficult emotions.
Paxton emphasizes that the hoarding behavior is a symptom of a deeper mental struggle, not the cause itself.
He stresses the need for compassion and understanding when approaching individuals with hoarding disorder, recognizing that they often need professional help to address the underlying issues.

The Role of Therapy and Alternative Approaches:

3. **Traditional and Alternative Therapies:** Paxton discusses the effectiveness of various therapies for hoarding disorder, highlighting the limitations of traditional approaches and the potential benefits of alternative methods.

He acknowledges that traditional talk therapy may not always be sufficient for individuals with severe hoarding disorder.
He explores the use of light therapy and homeopathic practices as alternative methods that have shown promise in addressing trauma and mental health issues.
Paxton suggests that a holistic approach, incorporating both traditional and alternative therapies, may be more effective in treating hoarding disorder.
He acknowledges the ongoing research and development of new therapies for mental health conditions.

Paxton’s Unique Approach to Helping Hoarders:

4. **Paxton’s Compassionate Approach:** Paxton emphasizes his personal experience with addiction and struggles as a crucial factor in his ability to connect with hoarders without judgment.

He believes his own past experiences make him uniquely empathetic towards those struggling with hoarding disorder, allowing him to build trust and foster positive change.
He emphasizes his commitment to helping individuals overcome their hoarding challenges, not just cleaning up their homes.
Paxton’s approach focuses on understanding and respect, creating a supportive environment where individuals feel safe to confront their issues.
His work exemplifies the power of empathy and genuine care in helping individuals break free from destructive patterns.

The Importance of Family and Support Systems:

5. **The Role of Family and Support:** Paxton highlights the crucial role of family and support systems in the recovery process of both hoarding disorder and addiction.

He emphasizes that family involvement is essential for long-term success, providing accountability and encouragement during challenging times.
He acknowledges that family members often feel overwhelmed and frustrated by hoarding behaviors, requiring their own support and guidance.
Paxton advocates for a collaborative approach, involving both the individual and their support network in the recovery process.
The discussion emphasizes the importance of community and connection in overcoming difficult personal challenges.

The Prison System and Rehabilitation:

6. **Prison System and Rehabilitation:** Paxton delves into his controversial yet well-intentioned approach to employing ex-convicts, often young black men, to work on his projects.

He explains that he finds ex-convicts to be reliable, dedicated, and empathetic workers, often having a unique understanding of those struggling with personal challenges.
Paxton advocates for prison reform, highlighting the lack of resources and support for rehabilitation programs within the prison system.
He proposes a for-profit halfway house program to provide entrepreneurial training and support for ex-convicts upon release, aiming to empower them and reduce recidivism rates.
His ideas explore innovative ways to address societal issues and provide opportunities for individuals who have been marginalized.

The Power of Mental Toughness and Self-Awareness:

7. **Overcoming Challenges:** Paxton shares his insights on mental resilience, highlighting the importance of self-awareness and the ability to confront difficult emotions.

He emphasizes that while it’s not always easy, facing one’s challenges head-on is crucial for personal growth and recovery.
He believes that recognizing and acknowledging one’s flaws and weaknesses is a vital step towards positive change.
Paxton’s own journey exemplifies the power of self-reflection and the courage to seek help when needed.
He encourages listeners to embrace their challenges and strive to overcome them, fostering a sense of self-belief and resilience.

The Subjectivity of Reality and Moral Values:

8. **Subjectivity of Reality and Morality:** Paxton reflects on the subjective nature of reality, emphasizing that what might seem outrageous or immoral to one person can be justified by another.

He acknowledges the complexities of human behavior, highlighting that what might seem “crazy” to one person may hold a different meaning for another.
He highlights the importance of understanding that individuals often operate within their own unique frameworks of understanding and experience.
The discussion encourages listeners to be open-minded and compassionate when encountering different perspectives and actions.
Paxton challenges rigid moral judgments, urging listeners to consider the complexities of human experience before passing judgment.

Paxton’s Passion for Storytelling and the Importance of Honesty:

9. **The Power of Storytelling:** Paxton reveals his passion for listening to and sharing stories, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and vulnerability.

He highlights his belief in the power of storytelling to connect individuals and foster understanding, particularly when shared from a place of honesty.
He acknowledges his own journey as a story of both struggle and triumph, inspiring others to share their own experiences and find their own paths to recovery.
The discussion highlights the value of vulnerability and the importance of being honest about one’s experiences.
Paxton encourages listeners to embrace their stories, both good and bad, as valuable tools for connection and growth.

The Nature of Addiction and Recovery:

10. **The Nature of Addiction:** Paxton delves into the complexities of addiction, discussing his own recovery journey and emphasizing that addiction is a continuous process, not a one-time cure.

He acknowledges that addiction is a lifelong challenge, requiring ongoing vigilance and commitment to maintaining sobriety.
He emphasizes that relapse is a possibility for all addicts, but it’s crucial to learn from mistakes and continue the recovery journey.
The discussion highlights the importance of support networks and the ongoing struggle to maintain a healthy lifestyle.
Paxton encourages those struggling with addiction to embrace the process of recovery and seek support from others.

The Impact of “Hoarders” on Paxton’s Life:

11. **The Impact of “Hoarders”:** Paxton shares how participating in “Hoarders” has changed his life, both professionally and personally.

He describes how the show has provided him with a platform to help others and raise awareness about hoarding disorder.
He acknowledges the challenges and complexities of working on a reality show, balancing entertainment with the sensitive nature of the subject matter.
Paxton reflects on the positive impact of the show on his life, allowing him to reach a wider audience and make a difference in people’s lives.
The discussion explores the intersection of personal experiences, entertainment, and social impact, highlighting the power of television to connect and inspire.

Paxton’s Views on Pornography and Sexuality:

12. **Pornography and Sexuality:** Paxton offers his unique perspective on pornography and sexuality, sharing his own views and acknowledging the diversity of opinions.

He openly discusses his enjoyment of pornography, highlighting his belief that it’s a normal aspect of human sexuality.
He acknowledges the controversy surrounding pornography, acknowledging its potential downsides while asserting his personal right to enjoy it.
Paxton’s open discussion about sexuality challenges societal taboos and encourages a more open dialogue on the subject.
He highlights the importance of personal freedom and the need to respect individual choices, even when they differ from one’s own.

The Importance of Finding Purpose and Meaning:

13. **Finding Purpose and Meaning:** Paxton shares his insights on finding meaning and purpose in life, emphasizing the importance of helping others and making a difference.

He describes how his work with hoarders has become a source of personal fulfillment, replacing his previous addictions with a desire to help others.
Paxton acknowledges that helping others has become a driving force in his life, providing him with a sense of purpose and meaning.
He encourages listeners to explore their passions and find ways to make a positive impact on the world around them.
The conversation highlights the importance of finding a life’s work that aligns with one’s values and brings a sense of satisfaction and contribution.

The “Five Decisions Away” Podcast:

14. **”Five Decisions Away”:** Paxton promotes his own podcast, “Five Decisions Away,” where he shares his personal stories and insights on overcoming challenges.

He explains the concept of the podcast, exploring the idea that everyone is just a few decisions away from a drastically different life trajectory.
He encourages listeners to consider their own choices and the impact they have on their lives.
Paxton’s podcast serves as a platform for sharing personal stories and lessons learned, offering listeners a sense of connection and encouragement.
The discussion highlights the power of sharing stories and the potential for personal growth through vulnerability and self-reflection.

Paxton’s Views on Circumcision and Traditional Practices:

15. **Circumcision and Tradition:** Paxton shares his controversial stance against circumcision, challenging the traditional practice and arguing for the importance of bodily autonomy.

He expresses his opinion that circumcision is a harmful and unnecessary practice, raising concerns about potential health risks and the lack of scientific evidence supporting its benefits.
Paxton criticizes the justification of circumcision based on tradition and religious beliefs, advocating for informed consent and respect for individual bodily integrity.
He encourages listeners to question traditional practices and consider the ethical implications of procedures performed on children without their consent.
The discussion touches on themes of personal choice, bodily autonomy, and the importance of challenging outdated beliefs and practices.

The Importance of Perspective and Recognizing the Uniqueness of Human Experience:

16. **Perspective and Human Experience:** Paxton emphasizes the importance of recognizing that everyone’s experience is unique and that judgment should be reserved.

He shares anecdotes from his work, highlighting the vast range of human behavior and the need to approach individuals with empathy and understanding.
Paxton encourages listeners to challenge their own biases and recognize the complexities of human experience.
He advocates for open-mindedness and compassion, promoting a more inclusive and tolerant perspective on the world.
The conversation highlights the importance of recognizing the diversity of human experience and the need for empathy and understanding in a world filled with different perspectives and choices.

The Role of Passion and Skill in Life:

17. **Passion and Skill:** Paxton reflects on the importance of passion and skill in achieving personal fulfillment, highlighting the dedication and commitment required to excel in any field.

He shares his admiration for individuals who are deeply passionate and skilled in their chosen pursuits, whether it’s butchering, fighting, or playing music.
Paxton emphasizes that true excellence requires dedication, practice, and a deep love for the craft.
He encourages listeners to identify their passions and commit to developing their skills, pursuing their dreams with enthusiasm and dedication.
The discussion inspires listeners to recognize the power of passion and the joy of pursuing mastery in any area of life.

The Importance of Setting Realistic Expectations:

18. **Realistic Expectations:** Paxton advises listeners to set realistic expectations for themselves and others, acknowledging that life is not always perfect and that struggles and setbacks are inevitable.

He emphasizes the importance of recognizing one’s limitations and focusing on achievable goals, rather than striving for unattainable perfection.
Paxton encourages listeners to be kind to themselves and others, accepting imperfections and celebrating small victories along the way.
He highlights the value of patience and perseverance in pursuing personal growth and achieving goals.
The conversation promotes a healthy perspective on life, acknowledging the reality of challenges while fostering a sense of hope and optimism.

The “Five Decisions Away” from a Different Life:

19. **”Five Decisions Away”:** Paxton reiterates the key message of his podcast, emphasizing that everyone is a few decisions away from a drastically different life path.

He challenges listeners to consider their own choices and the impact they have on their lives.
Paxton encourages listeners to be mindful of their decisions and to strive for positive change.
He reminds listeners that even small choices can lead to significant shifts in life direction.
The conversation empowers listeners to take ownership of their choices and to actively shape their future.

The Value of Connection and Sharing Stories:

20. **Connection and Shared Experience:** Paxton emphasizes the power of connection and shared experience, highlighting the importance of sharing stories and listening to others.

He acknowledges the universality of human experiences, finding common ground through shared stories of struggle, redemption, and growth.
Paxton encourages listeners to connect with others, share their own stories, and find support in a world often filled with isolation.
He highlights the importance of empathy, compassion, and understanding in building meaningful connections.
The conversation underscores the human need for connection and the power of storytelling to bridge divides and foster shared understanding.

Memorable Quotes:

“I always say hitting rock bottom for me was, like, the greatest thing ever. Because you fuck up so many times by the time you get back out of rock bottom, I don’t think you pick yourself up. Right. You’ve broken all those rules and you’re like, fuck, I’m not gonna job. “
“I hate that word crazy, and they sure sound it. Right. But something really intense has happened to them at some point in their life that made them. They got it it it jumped started it and got them. And then about 10 years of bad decisions. Got them there.”
“I always say there’s a there’s a it’s one thing to quit and it’s another to to strategically stop. If I’m fighting one of your buddies, you know, that’s that’s not quitting. That’s strategically stopping. I know I’m gonna die. if I if I don’t stop.”
“I’m much more concerned with not having people feel ripped off than I am with making money. Okay?”
“I’ve learned with doing hoarders, man. Like, I’m I’m learning it’s cool to make a difference. I didn’t know that. What feels good, isn’t it? It’s a mate. It’s the new it’s my new drug.”

JRE #196 – Matt Paxton