JRE #280 – Philip Coppens

11/5/2012

#280 – Philip Coppens

Joe Rogan sits down with Philip Coppens, a researcher of ancient civilizations and author of the book “The Lost Civilization Enigma.” This episode takes a deep dive into the mysteries of ancient history, exploring provocative and controversial topics about the origins of civilizations and the possibility of extraterrestrial intervention. Underlying themes revolve around the limitations of traditional academic frameworks, the power of conspiracy theories, the influence of psychedelic experiences on human consciousness, and the ever-evolving nature of our understanding of the past.

1. The Suppression of Ancient Knowledge

Coppens argues that academic institutions often suppress evidence that contradicts established historical timelines. He cites cases of deliberate mislabeling and suppression of findings, suggesting a conspiracy to maintain the status quo. Coppens points to the example of the Gloiseau discovery in France in the 1920s, where a farmer boy’s discovery of ancient artifacts was dismissed as fraud to avoid challenging accepted notions of early writing systems.

1. Academics and Ego: Coppens criticizes the egotism of some academics, particularly when faced with evidence that challenges their established views. He points to the reactions of Egyptologists to discoveries that suggest a much older civilization than traditionally accepted, highlighting their unwillingness to admit they might be wrong.
2. The Power of Peer Review: Coppens discusses the role of peer review in scientific journals, arguing that it can be used to suppress inconvenient findings. He mentions the case of Dr. Zahi Hawass, who, despite allegedly finding carbon dating evidence suggesting an older Great Pyramid, has not published the results, allowing mainstream narratives to persist.
3. The Case of Gobekli Tepe: Coppens uses Gobekli Tepe as a prime example of a site that challenges the standard timeline of civilization. Its age, estimated at 14,000 BC, suggests a more sophisticated human history than previously understood, yet many academics resist accepting this evidence.
4. A Non-Linear Progression of Civilization: Coppens believes that civilization did not progress in a linear fashion, suggesting that there were advanced cultures that were wiped out, leaving few traces. He uses the example of contemporary Africa, where some communities have remained relatively unchanged for centuries, while others have advanced rapidly due to Western influence.

2. The Atlantis Conspiracy

Coppens explores the enduring myth of Atlantis, arguing that its existence, while not proven, should not be dismissed outright. He highlights the fact that the ancient Egyptians believed in Atlantis and cites historical accounts of Greek scholars traveling to Egypt and finding evidence of this lost civilization.

1. Plato’s Account: Coppens argues that Plato’s account of Atlantis should not be dismissed as mere allegory. While evidence is lacking, the historical context and the fact that the ancient Egyptians seemingly corroborated Plato’s story suggest that it might have been based on a real event.
2. Concentric Circles and Water Technology: Coppens cites the discovery of concentric circles at various ancient sites, including Stonehenge and Avery, suggesting a possible connection to water technology. He theorizes that these circles may have functioned as water filtration systems, indicating an advanced understanding of water purification.
3. The Importance of Water: Coppens highlights the enduring connection between water and healing in various cultures, suggesting that our ancestors might have possessed knowledge of water’s beneficial properties. He mentions the popularity of spas throughout history, where people sought water-based cures for ailments.
4. The Search for Atlantis Continues: While the existence of Atlantis remains debated, Coppens believes that further research and exploration of potential sites could shed light on this intriguing mystery. He suggests that the story of a submerged civilization in the Atlantic Ocean might be based on real events, given the changes in sea levels at the end of the last ice age.

3. The “Magic Bullet” Conspiracy

Coppens delves into the JFK assassination, challenging the official narrative of the “single bullet theory.” He argues that the theory, created by a junior lawyer, was designed to explain away inconsistencies in the Zapruder film and evidence from the scene.

1. A Convenient Explanation: Coppens argues that the “magic bullet theory,” which suggests a single bullet caused multiple wounds, was invented to avoid the possibility of multiple shooters or a conspiracy. He points to the fact that the theory was initially rejected by even those who proposed it.
2. The Zapruder Film: Coppens draws attention to the Zapruder film, highlighting its inconsistencies, such as the direction of the blood spray, suggesting a more chaotic event than officially portrayed. He questions the number of actual shots that hit Kennedy.
3. Deceptive Labeling: Coppens emphasizes the suspicious labeling of a bullet hole in Kennedy’s neck as a tracheotomy scar, suggesting an attempt to hide evidence of a bullet entry wound. He argues that this deception points to a deliberate effort to misrepresent the events of the assassination.
4. A Legacy of Doubt: Coppens suggests that the official history of the JFK assassination is not a definitive truth but rather a narrative that has been accepted, despite its inconsistencies and the numerous questions that remain unanswered. He highlights the persistent skepticism surrounding the event, which he sees as justified given the flaws in the official account.

4. The Ancient Aliens Theory

Coppens explores the popular “ancient aliens” theory, suggesting that our ancestors might have interacted with extraterrestrial intelligence, either physically or through other means, such as psychedelic experiences.

1. The Allure of Aliens: Coppens acknowledges the fascination with aliens, attributing it to the mind-blowing nature of human existence and the potential implications of encountering other intelligent life forms. He suggests that the sheer complexity of our planet and the universe makes the possibility of alien life highly plausible, if not probable.
2. The Role of Psychedelics: Coppens suggests that psychedelic substances might have been used by ancient cultures to connect with non-physical intelligences. He believes that these substances, through their effects on human neurochemistry, could have opened doors to other dimensions or forms of consciousness.
3. The Sumerian Connection: Coppens refers to the work of Zechariah Sitchin, who believed that ancient Sumerian texts described the intervention of alien beings in human evolution and creation. He highlights the intriguing fact that Sitchin’s translations of these texts, made in the 1970s, anticipated later scientific theories about the use of reflective particles to protect Earth’s atmosphere.
4. The DNA Evidence: Coppens discusses Sitchin’s search for DNA evidence to support his claim that humans were genetically manipulated by extraterrestrials. He acknowledges the controversy surrounding Sitchin’s work but believes that DNA analysis could potentially provide further insight into the origins of humanity.

5. The Mystery of the Pyramids

Coppens delves into the construction of pyramids, particularly the Great Pyramid of Giza, and the controversies surrounding their origins and methods of construction.

1. The Geo Polymer Theory: Coppens explores the theory that the pyramids were not built using traditional methods of quarrying and transporting stone but rather by utilizing a process called “geo polymer,” which involves creating artificial rock-like material. He suggests that the evidence supports this theory, although it has been met with resistance from the archaeological establishment.
2. The Difficulty of Traditional Explanations: Coppens highlights the logical inconsistencies in traditional explanations for pyramid construction, pointing to the sheer scale of the task and the difficulty of moving such massive stones using the tools and techniques supposedly available to ancient civilizations. He argues that the traditional narratives are often based on assumptions and not actual evidence.
3. A More Advanced Civilization: Coppens suggests that the evidence points to a more advanced civilization than previously understood, capable of manipulating materials and engineering structures in ways that remain unexplained by traditional methods. He posits that the pyramids, rather than being mere tombs, might have served a greater purpose, possibly connected to the ancient Egyptians’ beliefs about the gods and the afterlife.
4. The Continued Debate: Coppens emphasizes that the debate surrounding pyramid construction is far from settled. He encourages further research and exploration, believing that the mysteries surrounding the pyramids are not insurmountable and can be solved through a more open-minded approach to understanding ancient history.

6. The Bosnian Pyramids

Coppens discusses the Bosnian pyramids, a controversial discovery that has divided the scientific community, with some academics dismissing it as a natural phenomenon.

1. A Challenge to the Establishment: Coppens argues that the Bosnian pyramids are a significant challenge to the archaeological establishment, which has been reluctant to acknowledge their existence and man-made nature. He suggests that the reluctance stems from a fear of disrupting established narratives and the potential implications of admitting to a civilization older than previously believed.
2. The Scientific Evidence: Coppens cites the findings of international conferences and the consensus of leading Egyptologists and geologists who have studied the site, suggesting that there is strong evidence to support the claim that the Bosnian pyramids are man-made. He criticizes the dismissal of these findings as “creationist conferences,” suggesting a bias against considering alternative explanations.
3. The Ongoing Excavation: Coppens highlights the ongoing excavation of the Bosnian pyramids, which continues to reveal new evidence, including tunnel complexes, stone blocks, and alignments that suggest a complex and purposeful design. He believes that the increasing evidence will eventually force a re-evaluation of the site and its significance.
4. A Deeper Understanding: Coppens suggests that the Bosnian pyramids, if accepted as man-made, could lead to a deeper understanding of ancient civilizations and their capabilities. He believes that the site, like Gobekli Tepe, could revolutionize our understanding of human history and the potential for advanced civilizations in the distant past.

7. The Nasca Lines

Coppens explores the mystery of the Nasca lines, gigantic geoglyphs in the Peruvian desert that are best viewed from the air, leading to speculation about their creation and purpose.

1. A View from the Sky: Coppens highlights the undeniable fact that the Nasca lines are best seen from the air, suggesting that their creators might have had some form of air travel. He cites the evidence of skeletons buried with hang gliding materials and the theories surrounding the use of hot air balloons, suggesting a possible understanding of aerial flight in this ancient culture.
2. A Sophisticated Civilization: Coppens argues that the Nasca lines, along with the pyramids and other structures found in the region, point to a sophisticated civilization with a deep understanding of astronomy and engineering. He believes that the Nasca culture was far more advanced than previously understood, possibly possessing technologies that we are only beginning to rediscover.
3. The Elongated Skulls: Coppens addresses the bizarre practice of skull deformation in the Nasca culture, suggesting a possible connection to their beliefs about the gods or aliens. He highlights the prevalence of this practice and the unusual shape of the deformed skulls, which he believes could reflect an attempt to resemble the image of alien beings.
4. A Culture of Exploration: Coppens suggests that the Nasca culture might have been more adventurous and exploratory than traditionally perceived, possibly venturing into the skies or even traveling to other continents. He argues that their achievements in engineering and their unique practices suggest a culture that was both advanced and open to new ideas and experiences.

8. The Antikythera Mechanism

Coppens discusses the Antikythera Mechanism, a complex astronomical device discovered in a shipwreck off the coast of Greece, which showcases the advanced technology of ancient Greek civilization.

1. A Lost Technology: Coppens emphasizes the significance of the Antikythera Mechanism as a testament to the advanced technological capabilities of the ancient Greeks. He highlights the fact that this device, dating back to the 1st or 2nd century BC, incorporates complex gears and calculations that were not thought to have existed until much later in history.
2. A Bridge Between Cultures: Coppens suggests that the Antikythera Mechanism might have been a product of cultural exchange, incorporating knowledge from both ancient Babylonia and Greek astronomy. He believes that this device demonstrates the interconnectedness of ancient civilizations and the transfer of knowledge across cultures.
3. The First Computer: Coppens mentions the fact that some consider the Antikythera Mechanism to be the first computer, highlighting its remarkable complexity and functionality. He believes that this device challenges the traditional view of ancient Greek technology as rudimentary and suggests a much more advanced level of understanding and innovation.
4. A Window to the Past: Coppens highlights the ongoing effort to reconstruct the Antikythera Mechanism using modern technology, revealing more about its intricacies and capabilities. He believes that this device provides a glimpse into the lost knowledge of ancient civilizations and the potential for technological advancements that we are only now beginning to uncover.

9. The Importance of Skepticism

Coppens acknowledges the importance of skepticism and critical thinking in evaluating claims about ancient civilizations and extraterrestrial phenomena.

1. The Confirmation Bias: Coppens recognizes the potential for confirmation bias, where people seeking to believe in something might selectively interpret evidence or overlook contradictory information. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining an open mind but also critically evaluating all claims and evidence.
2. The Limits of Skepticism: Coppens argues that skepticism should not be a barrier to exploring new possibilities. He cautions against dismissing evidence or theories simply because they challenge established narratives or are considered “fringe.” He believes that skepticism should be a tool for rigorous investigation, not a justification for ignoring or suppressing new ideas.
3. The Value of Debate: Coppens supports the idea of open debate and discussion of controversial topics, believing that this allows for a more nuanced and informed understanding of complex issues. He encourages a respectful exchange of ideas, even when they differ significantly, arguing that this is the best way to advance knowledge and understanding.
4. The Need for Open-Mindedness: Coppens advocates for open-mindedness in approaching the mysteries of ancient history and the possibility of extraterrestrial life. He believes that by accepting the limitations of our current knowledge and embracing the possibility of unexpected discoveries, we can make significant progress in understanding the past and our place in the universe.

10. The Power of Psychedelic Experiences

Coppens discusses the profound impact of psychedelic experiences on human consciousness, suggesting that they might be a key to understanding our connection to the universe and the potential for non-physical interactions with other intelligences.

1. A Gateway to Other Dimensions: Coppens suggests that psychedelic experiences might provide access to other dimensions or states of consciousness, which could explain the reports of contact with non-physical entities or alien beings. He believes that these experiences, often described as profound and life-altering, should be taken seriously and explored in a scientific context.
2. The Importance of Experience: Coppens criticizes the tendency to dismiss psychedelic experiences as mere hallucinations or delusions, arguing that those who have not had such experiences are ill-equipped to judge their nature and potential significance. He believes that firsthand experience with psychedelics is essential to understanding their potential.
3. The Connection to Ancient Cultures: Coppens highlights the use of psychedelic substances in many ancient cultures, suggesting that these substances were deliberately used for spiritual purposes or to connect with other realms of existence. He believes that studying these practices and the role of psychedelics in ancient cultures could provide valuable insights into the history of consciousness.
4. The Need for Open-Mindedness: Coppens advocates for a more open-minded approach to studying psychedelic experiences, acknowledging their potential for scientific and spiritual exploration. He believes that by removing the stigma and prejudice surrounding these substances, we can unlock a deeper understanding of consciousness, the universe, and the potential for connections with other intelligences.

11. The Government’s Role in UFO Secrecy

Coppens explores the possibility of a government cover-up regarding UFO sightings and the potential for alien contact. He discusses the Area 51 phenomenon and the various accounts of UFO encounters with military installations, suggesting that the government might be hiding more than they admit.

1. Area 51 and Disinformation: Coppens examines the history of Area 51, highlighting the government’s initial denials of its existence and the deliberate release of disinformation to mislead the public. He believes that this pattern of secrecy suggests that something significant is being concealed at the facility.
2. UFO Interference with Military Operations: Coppens discusses reports of UFO sightings near military installations and alleged interference with military operations, suggesting that these phenomena could represent a genuine interest in or even interference from extraterrestrial intelligence.
3. The Robert Lazar Story: Coppens acknowledges the compelling nature of Robert Lazar’s story, suggesting that he might have been told the truth about the technology he worked on, but that the government might have deliberately misled him about its origin. He suggests that Lazar’s intelligence and the detailed nature of his account make it difficult to dismiss him as a liar.
4. The Motivation for Secrecy: Coppens speculates on the motivations behind government secrecy regarding UFOs, suggesting that it might be a combination of fear, technological superiority, and a desire to control the narrative about alien contact. He believes that the government might be withholding information to avoid panic or societal upheaval.

12. The Significance of Ancient Art

Coppens emphasizes the importance of ancient art as a source of information about past civilizations, pointing to the depictions of gods, aliens, and technological advancements that might otherwise be lost to history.

1. A Visual Record: Coppens argues that ancient art provides a visual record of beliefs, practices, and events that might not be documented in written texts. He highlights the importance of studying these images to gain a deeper understanding of ancient cultures and their worldview.
2. Depictions of Gods and Aliens: Coppens draws attention to the common depictions of gods and alien beings in ancient art, suggesting that these representations reflect genuine beliefs and possible interactions with extraterrestrial intelligence. He believes that these images offer a window into the minds of ancient peoples and their understanding of the universe.
3. Technological Advancements: Coppens highlights the possibility that ancient art might depict technological advancements that are not fully understood. He points to the intricate details in some carvings and the apparent understanding of astronomical concepts, suggesting that our ancestors might have possessed technologies beyond our current understanding.
4. A Source of Inspiration: Coppens believes that studying ancient art can be a source of inspiration for contemporary artists and scientists, challenging us to think beyond established narratives and explore new possibilities. He suggests that these images might hold clues to the future and inspire us to rediscover lost knowledge and technologies.

13. The Role of the Media in Shaping Our Understanding

Coppens discusses the influence of the media, particularly television shows like “Ancient Aliens,” in shaping the public’s understanding of ancient history and the possibility of alien contact.

1. The Power of Storytelling: Coppens recognizes the power of television to engage audiences and shape their perspectives. He acknowledges that shows like “Ancient Aliens,” while entertaining, often present theories and evidence in a way that is sensationalized and might not reflect the full complexity of the subject matter.
2. The Value of Open-Mindedness: Coppens believes that “Ancient Aliens” has served a valuable purpose by sparking curiosity and encouraging open-mindedness about the possibility of extraterrestrial intervention. He acknowledges that the show has inspired many people to research ancient history and explore the unknown.
3. The Need for Critical Thinking: Coppens emphasizes the need for critical thinking when evaluating the claims presented on shows like “Ancient Aliens.” He encourages viewers to research the evidence themselves and to be aware of the potential for bias and misrepresentation in the presentation of information.
4. The Importance of a Balanced Perspective: Coppens advocates for a balanced perspective on the topic of ancient aliens, acknowledging the potential for both truth and exaggeration in the narratives presented. He believes that by maintaining an open mind and critically evaluating all evidence, we can move towards a more nuanced and informed understanding of the past and our place in the universe.

14. The Future of Archaeological Research

Coppens expresses hope for a more open and collaborative approach to archaeological research, encouraging the inclusion of diverse perspectives and methodologies to break through the barriers of established narratives.

1. Breaking Down Barriers: Coppens calls for a breakdown of the barriers that often exist between different disciplines, such as archaeology, geology, and engineering. He believes that combining these fields of expertise can lead to a more complete and accurate understanding of ancient civilizations.
2. The Importance of Collaboration: Coppens encourages collaboration between academics and non-academics, recognizing that those outside of the established institutions often bring fresh perspectives and innovative approaches to research. He believes that this collaboration can lead to breakthroughs that might not be possible within traditional academic frameworks.
3. The Role of Technology: Coppens highlights the potential of technology, particularly in the areas of imaging and analysis, to unlock the secrets of ancient civilizations. He believes that advances in these fields can provide new insights into the past and help us to better understand the achievements of our ancestors.
4. A New Era of Discovery: Coppens is optimistic about the future of archaeological research, believing that a more open-minded and collaborative approach can lead to a new era of discovery and a more complete understanding of human history.

Memorable Quotes:

1. “We’ve been around for 35,000 years, and we would like to believe that for 30,000 years of that existence, we did nothing. We sat on our bum.” – Coppens challenges the traditional view of early human history as a period of stagnation, suggesting that advanced civilizations may have existed long before the accepted timeline.
2. “I don’t think it’s gonna be much. I really don’t think if we barely can find shit from 2000 beers years ago. We barely find shit from 2000 BC. barely.” – Coppens points out the difficulty of finding evidence of ancient civilizations, given the vast spans of time and the natural processes of erosion and decay, but also highlighting the limitations of current understanding.
3. “It’s like, you know, whether it is things like hydrogenic substances, whether it is things like death, experiences, life after death, all of these things, aliens or civilizations, they all somehow are pushing this cardboard thing of the framework saying, help we need to get through because there’s something outside of this framework.” – Coppens eloquently describes the discomfort many feel when confronted with information that challenges their existing worldview, suggesting a fear of venturing beyond the familiar and accepted framework.
4. “It’s so clear that we’re different. We’re so much different than all the rest of them.” – Coppens highlights the unique qualities of humanity and the remarkable advancements we have made in a relatively short period of time, raising questions about our origins and the possibility of external influence.
5. “If there’s aliens and they come here and they fucking spin around the sky and then go home. You know? It could be like this could be like Earth. It’s like the high school parking lot.” – Coppens humorously illustrates the potential for alien contact to be as mundane and uninteresting as the antics of teenagers, suggesting that our expectations might be too grandiose and that the reality of alien encounters might be far less dramatic than we imagine.