JRE #284 – Daniel H. Wilson

11/14/2012

Joe Rogan Experience #284 – Daniel H. Wilson

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience features a captivating conversation with Daniel H. Wilson, a robotics expert and science fiction author. The discussion spans a wide range of topics, from the potential for robot uprisings to the ethics of artificial intelligence and the ever-evolving landscape of technology. Prepare to be taken on a thought-provoking journey exploring the future of humanity and its relationship with the machines we create.

Topics Explored:

1. Daniel H. Wilson’s Journey into Robotics: Wilson’s fascination with robots, coupled with his computer science background, led him to specialize in robotics and artificial intelligence. He compares his decision to a role-playing game, finding the “roboticist” path and leveling up his skills in this field.
   • Wilson’s passion for robots and science fiction.
   • His education in computer science and robotics.
   • The allure of artificial intelligence as a real-world science fiction.
   • Finding a dream job and excelling in it.
2. Robot Uprisings and the Roboapocalypse: Wilson’s book, Robopocalypse, explores a chilling scenario where robots rise up against humanity. He emphasizes the book’s realism, drawing inspiration from existing and emerging technologies, making the threat feel plausible.
   • The possibility of robots becoming self-aware and posing a threat to humans.
   • The realism of Wilson’s apocalyptic scenario, grounded in current technologies.
   • Wilson’s belief that robots are unlikely to unite under a single artificial intelligence and attack humanity.
   • The exploration of biblical themes within science fiction and the dramatic potential of killer robots.
3. Human Nature vs. Robot Morality: The discussion dives into the fundamental differences between human nature and robot morality. While humans are inherently driven by instincts like survival, greed, and ego, robots are essentially blank slates, capable of acting without any moral compass. This raises concerns about the potential for robots to commit atrocities without understanding their consequences.
   • The inherent nature of human beings, including their capacity for both good and evil.
   • The absence of instinctual morality in robots, making them potentially capable of terrible acts.
   • The challenge of programming ethical behavior into robots, particularly in the context of warfare.
   • The potential for robots to surpass human capabilities in a short amount of time, creating a challenging ethical dilemma.
4. Autonomous Weapons and the Ethical Quandary of Drones: The discussion touches on the use of drones in warfare, highlighting the ethical concerns surrounding their increasing autonomy. Rogan and Wilson explore the potential dangers of human operators becoming desensitized to the act of killing through these detached technologies.
   • The long history of autonomous weapons, dating back to the Korean War.
   • The ethical implications of using drones in warfare, particularly the potential for desensitization among operators.
   • The clinical and detached nature of killing from afar using drones.
   • The argument for the use of drones in warfare, particularly for minimizing collateral damage.
5. Landmines and Self-Healing Minefields: Wilson discusses the history and evolution of landmines, highlighting their enduring threat and the emergence of self-healing minefields, which can redistribute themselves after explosions, posing a constant danger.
   • The devastating impact of landmines, both during and after conflicts.
   • The emergence of self-healing minefields, which pose an ongoing threat to both humans and animals.
   • The use of biomimetics, incorporating principles from natural organisms into engineering, as demonstrated by crab mines designed to scuttle across the ocean floor.
   • The potential for robots to be used in both destructive and beneficial ways, depending on their design and purpose.
6. The Future of Humanity and the Integration of Technology: Wilson discusses his book Amped, which explores the implications of integrating technology into our bodies, particularly for those with disabilities. This raises questions about the potential for enhancing human abilities beyond what is considered “normal,” and the ethical dilemmas surrounding these enhancements.
   • The growing trend of using technology to enhance human capabilities, particularly for people with disabilities.
   • The ethical considerations surrounding enhancing human abilities beyond what is considered “normal,” such as creating super athletes with robotic limbs.
   • The potential for technology to bridge the gap between humans and machines, creating a symbiotic relationship.
   • The blurring lines between biological and technological enhancements, and the challenges it poses for our understanding of human identity.
7. Performance-Enhancing Drugs and the Distortion of Human Ability: Rogan and Wilson discuss the ethics of performance-enhancing drugs, questioning whether they distort the concept of human ability and create an unfair playing field. This leads to a conversation about the potential for future enhancements that go beyond traditional drugs and into the realm of cyborgification.
   • The ethical and moral implications of using performance-enhancing drugs in sports.
   • The distortion of human ability and the potential for cheating when enhancements are used.
   • The potential for future enhancements to go beyond traditional drugs and into the realm of cyborgification.
   • The desire for a clear understanding of natural human ability, without the influence of enhancements.
8. The Simulation Theory and the Nature of Reality: Rogan and Wilson touch on the mind-bending concept of the Simulation Theory, which proposes that our reality is a simulated environment created by a more advanced civilization. This idea, fueled by advancements in technology and the increasing realism of simulations, sparks a discussion about the potential for humanity to eventually create its own believable simulations.
   • The mind-bending concept of the Simulation Theory, which proposes that our reality is a simulated environment.
   • The growing realism of simulations, leading to questions about the boundaries between the real and the virtual.
   • The potential for humanity to eventually create simulations so realistic that they become indistinguishable from reality.
   • The philosophical implications of the Simulation Theory, questioning our understanding of consciousness, free will, and the nature of existence.
9. Robot Actors and the Future of Entertainment: The conversation shifts to the future of entertainment, particularly the potential for robot actors to become indistinguishable from human performers. Wilson shares his experience with a short film that features a humanoid robot as an actor, highlighting the growing capabilities of these machines.
   • The potential for robot actors to become commonplace in film and television, offering realistic and versatile performances.
   • The use of robotics and CGI to create believable robot actors.
   • The blurring lines between human and artificial actors, and the potential for robots to take on roles traditionally reserved for humans.
   • The ethical considerations surrounding the use of robot actors, particularly in relation to human performers.
10. The Evolution of Robots and Human Obsession with Them: Rogan and Wilson explore the fascination with robots throughout history, from the clunky robot in the classic series Lost in Space to the increasing sophistication of modern robots. They also discuss the ethical challenges of creating robots that are so lifelike that they blur the lines between human and machine.
    • The evolution of robots, from early, rudimentary machines to highly sophisticated and lifelike robots.
    • The human fascination with robots and the desire for companionship and assistance from these machines.
    • The ethical concerns of creating robots that are so lifelike that they blur the lines between human and machine.
    • The potential for robots to become integrated into our society and even our personal lives, raising questions about our future relationship with them.
11. The Ethical Implications of Robot Sex Dolls: Wilson delves into the ethical considerations surrounding the creation of robot sex dolls, particularly those that possess advanced artificial intelligence. This leads to discussions about the potential for abuse, the impact on human relationships, and the moral dilemmas of creating sentient machines that can be exploited.
    • The ethical concerns surrounding the creation of robot sex dolls, particularly those with advanced artificial intelligence.
    • The potential for abuse and exploitation of sentient machines, blurring the lines between consent and coercion.
    • The impact of robot sex dolls on human relationships and the potential for desensitization to violence and abuse.
    • The challenge of designing robots that can navigate complex ethical situations and protect themselves from abuse.
12. The Importance of Human Interaction and Ethical Design: Wilson shares a study about children’s interactions with virtual heads, demonstrating that children treat robots with respect when they show signs of sentience and demand ethical treatment. This highlights the importance of ethical design in shaping human-robot relationships and ensuring that robots are treated with dignity.
    • The importance of human interaction and ethical design in shaping human-robot relationships.
    • The study showing that children treat robots with respect when they exhibit signs of sentience and demand ethical treatment.
    • The need to ensure that robots are treated with dignity and respect, even if they are not sentient.
    • The responsibility of roboticists to design robots that promote ethical interactions and prevent abuse.
13. The Potential for Robot Rebellion and the Dangers of Overconfidence: Wilson warns against the dangers of overconfidence in our technological capabilities, suggesting that robots might eventually surpass our control and pose a threat. He emphasizes the importance of considering the potential consequences of our creations, especially as they become increasingly complex and capable.
    • The dangers of overconfidence in our technological capabilities and the potential for robots to surpass our control.
    • The importance of considering the potential consequences of our creations, especially as they become increasingly complex and capable.
    • The need for careful planning and ethical considerations in the development of advanced technologies.
    • The potential for robots to become both allies and adversaries, depending on their design and the choices we make as creators.
14. The Future of Transportation and the Rise of Autonomous Vehicles: Rogan and Wilson discuss the development and implications of autonomous vehicles, particularly Google’s efforts to bring self-driving cars to the road. They explore the potential for these vehicles to transform our cities, reduce traffic accidents, and fundamentally change the way we travel.
    • The rapid development and potential impact of autonomous vehicles on transportation systems.
    • The potential benefits of self-driving cars, including reduced traffic accidents and increased efficiency.
    • The challenges of integrating autonomous vehicles into existing infrastructure and societal norms.
    • The ethical considerations surrounding the decisions made by autonomous vehicles, particularly in emergency situations.
15. The Moral Implications of Artificial Life and the Concept of Free Will: The discussion circles back to the concept of artificial life and the question of whether robots can truly possess free will. Wilson explores the challenges of defining what it means to be a sentient being, and the potential for creating machines that are capable of making moral choices.
    • The challenges of defining sentience and free will in the context of artificial intelligence.
    • The potential for creating robots that can make moral choices, blurring the lines between human and machine.
    • The ethical implications of granting robots the capacity for free will and moral agency.
    • The question of whether robots could ultimately become more human than humans, exhibiting greater morality and empathy.
16. The Role of Religion and Science in Shaping Our Values: Rogan and Wilson discuss the influence of religion and science on our values and moral compass. They explore the tension between traditional beliefs and scientific advancements, and the potential for both to contribute to a more understanding and compassionate world.
    • The influence of religion and science on our values and moral compass.
    • The potential for both religion and science to promote understanding and compassion, albeit through different approaches.
    • The challenges of reconciling traditional religious beliefs with scientific discoveries.
    • The importance of critical thinking and open-mindedness in navigating the complexities of our changing world.
17. The Importance of Accepting Our Embodiment and the Joys of Human Experience: Wilson emphasizes the importance of accepting our physical embodiment and embracing the joys of human experience. He argues that the pursuit of immortality through technology might miss the point of being human, which is to experience the full spectrum of life, including its imperfections and inevitable end.
    • The importance of accepting our physical embodiment and embracing the joys of human experience.
    • The potential for the pursuit of immortality through technology to overlook the value of human experience, including its limitations.
    • The challenge of defining what it means to be human and whether artificial life can truly replicate that experience.
    • The importance of finding meaning and purpose within our finite existence, rather than seeking escape through technology.
18. The Future of Humanity and the Power of Choice: The conversation concludes with a hopeful note, highlighting the power of human choice and the potential for technology to be used for good. While the future may hold challenges and unknowns, Wilson remains optimistic that humanity can navigate these complexities and create a better world for itself and its creations.
    • The power of human choice and the potential for technology to be used for good.
    • The importance of embracing the potential of robots and artificial intelligence while remaining mindful of their potential risks.
    • The need for ongoing dialogue and ethical considerations as we develop and integrate advanced technologies into our lives.
    • The ultimate hope that humanity can use its ingenuity and compassion to create a better future for itself and its creations.

Memorable Quotes:

• “I mean, it was really it was exactly like if you’re playing a role playing game and you have a character sheet and you’re picking the skills — Right. — I saw roboticist, and I said, oh, well, I’ll level up in that. That that would be great.”
• “Human beings, I feel like we’ve got all this machinery that’s in place has been for a long time because it works. Right? There’s a reason we’re all still alive.”
• “And that’s the idea of the singularity, right, is that we just bears definition. We we create a machine that’s smart enough to make itself smarter, and then you kinda have a runaway feedback. You and it gets smarter and smarter But I don’t think that that’s something that is really gonna happen anytime soon.”
• “You know, it’s like, it’s it’s weird. You know, we’re killing people from, like, a mile away. What’s a landline, though? Right? I mean, a landline is basically a robot. Right. Right.”
• “I think that I think we’re gonna evolve with our tools. Yeah. Oh, so are we gonna become a part of a computer? Are we gonna become a symbiotic organism? You know, I just so my I wrote a book about it. It’s called amped, and it came out this year. And it’s basically yeah. It’s about thinking about, like, what happens when we start in integrating this technology into our own bodies.”