JRE #334 – Dr. Amit Goswami

3/8/2013

Joe Rogan Experience #334 – Dr. Amit Goswami

This podcast delves into the mind-bending world of quantum physics and consciousness, with Dr. Amit Goswami, a renowned physicist and author, as the guest. Prepare for a heady exploration of concepts like quantum leaps, superposition, non-locality, and the role of consciousness in shaping reality. Dr. Goswami challenges traditional scientific paradigms and explores the intersection of science and spirituality. The podcast touches on provocative and controversial topics, such as the nature of free will, the implications of non-local consciousness, and the potential for spiritual transformation. Underlying themes emphasize the limitations of our current understanding of the universe and the potential for human consciousness to be a key driver of reality.

Major Topics:

1. Quantum Leaps and the Domain of Possibility
   • Electrons don’t move continuously between orbits; they “teleport” discontinuously, jumping from one state to another without traversing intervening space.
   • This concept of quantum leaps challenges the Newtonian model of continuous motion, suggesting a reality beyond our familiar space-time.
   • Dr. Goswami introduces the concept of a “domain of possibility,” where everything exists as a wave of potential before manifesting in our physical world.
   • This transcendent reality is analogous to the spiritual realm, the unconscious mind, and other concepts that defy conventional scientific understanding.
2. Superposition and the Observer Effect
   • Subatomic particles exhibit superposition, existing in multiple states (both moving and still, for example) simultaneously, until observed.
   • The act of measurement, or observation, collapses the wave of possibilities, forcing a particle to manifest in a specific state. The observer, therefore, plays a crucial role in shaping reality.
   • This counterintuitive concept suggests that our perception directly influences the nature of reality at the quantum level.
   • The podcast highlights the difficulties in grasping these concepts, as they challenge our ingrained understanding of how the universe operates.
3. Non-locality and Consciousness
   • Quantum objects can communicate instantaneously regardless of distance, even faster than the speed of light, a phenomenon called non-locality.
   • This challenges Einstein’s theory of relativity and suggests a reality where space and time are not absolute. This connection is theorized to be mediated by a non-material force, which Dr. Goswami identifies as consciousness.
   • Dr. Goswami argues that consciousness is not limited to the brain and is instead a non-local field that connects everything in the universe.
   • The concept of non-local consciousness introduces the possibility of instantaneous communication and shared experiences, potentially explaining phenomena like telepathy and shared emotions.
4. The Creative Process as a Quantum Phenomenon
   • Dr. Goswami presents a quantum interpretation of creativity, highlighting its four stages: preparation, incubation, illumination, and verification.
   • He posits that during the incubation stage, our thoughts expand into waves of possibilities, creating a broader pool of potential meanings and solutions.
   • Illumination, or the AHA moment, occurs when consciousness selects a new meaning or solution from this expanded field of possibilities.
   • This process suggests that creativity involves tapping into the realm of possibilities, where non-local consciousness plays a role in generating new ideas.
5. The Role of Consciousness in Actualization
   • Dr. Goswami proposes that consciousness is the force that collapses the wave of possibilities, transforming potential into actual reality.
   • This means that without a conscious observer, reality remains in a state of potentiality, with nothing being concrete or fixed.
   • The podcast explores the implications of this concept, suggesting that reality is a collaborative creation involving both non-local consciousness and individual observers.
   • The circular logic of this process is emphasized, where the observer and the observed are intertwined, mutually shaping each other.
6. Epigenetics and Morphogenetic Fields
   • Epigenetics challenges the notion that genes are the sole determiners of inheritance, suggesting that environmental factors can influence gene expression.
   • This concept is connected to Dr. Goswami’s idea of morphogenetic fields, blueprints for biological forms that exist beyond the physical level.
   • The podcast suggests that morphogenetic fields could explain how cells differentiate into specialized tissues, and how certain patterns of behavior or learning might be passed down through generations.
   • Dr. Goswami proposes that non-local consciousness interacts with morphogenetic fields, influencing the development and functioning of organisms, including humans.
7. The Dangers of Over-prescription and the Importance of Mind-Body Integration
   • Dr. Goswami expresses concern about the widespread use of psychoactive drugs, particularly antidepressants, highlighting the potential for unintended and long-term consequences.
   • He advocates for a more holistic approach to mental health, emphasizing the integration of mind-body medicine and addressing the psychological roots of depression.
   • He suggests that focusing on positive emotions and cultivating love and satisfaction can help individuals improve their mental wellbeing.
   • Dr. Goswami believes that relying solely on medication may provide temporary relief but often overlooks the underlying psychological and societal factors contributing to depression.
8. The Importance of Education and Cultivating Intuition
   • Dr. Goswami argues that the current educational system is inadequate, focusing too much on rational thinking and neglecting the development of emotional intelligence and intuition.
   • He emphasizes the need for a more creative and holistic approach to education, fostering a connection between the rational mind and the body’s emotional intelligence.
   • Dr. Goswami advocates for reintegrating emotions into our thinking process, recognizing them as a valuable way of knowing alongside rational thought.
   • He believes that cultivating intuition and recognizing the value of non-rational experiences can lead to greater creativity and a more fulfilling life.
9. Yoga as a Tool for Mindfulness and Spiritual Growth
   • Dr. Goswami explains that yoga was initially developed as a practice to find comfortable meditation postures and to promote physical well-being.
   • He highlights that yoga, especially when practiced slowly and mindfully, can slow down the mind and body, allowing for deeper relaxation and introspection.
   • Dr. Goswami suggests that the endorphin release associated with yoga can contribute to feelings of well-being and happiness.
   • He advocates for yoga as a holistic practice that integrates physical, mental, and spiritual dimensions, emphasizing its benefits for both physical and mental health.
10. The Potential for Spiritual Economics
    • Dr. Goswami proposes the concept of “spiritual economics,” suggesting that spiritual experiences and practices could be integrated into the marketplace as consumer goods.
    • He believes that investing in cultivating and sharing spiritual wisdom could lead to the creation of a society where happiness and well-being are prioritized.
    • He sees the podcast itself as an example of how spiritual concepts can be accessible and transformative in a contemporary context.
    • Dr. Goswami envisions a future where the pursuit of spiritual growth is valued and supported, contributing to a more harmonious and fulfilling world.
11. The Limits of Scientific Materialism
    • The podcast discusses the limitations of scientific materialism, which Dr. Goswami argues can be too restrictive and ultimately hinder our understanding of reality.
    • He criticizes the tendency to dismiss any phenomena that cannot be explained through materialist frameworks, such as intuition, consciousness, and spiritual experiences.
    • Dr. Goswami emphasizes the need for a more open-minded and inclusive approach to science, embracing the possibility that there are aspects of reality beyond our current understanding.
    • The podcast challenges listeners to consider the potential for consciousness to be a fundamental element of the universe, rather than a mere emergent property of matter.
12. The Importance of Openness and Tolerance
    • Dr. Goswami highlights the dangers of cynicism and skepticism, particularly when it comes to spiritual practices and exploration.
    • He encourages tolerance and openness to different perspectives and encourages listeners to engage with unfamiliar ideas, even if they seem initially strange.
    • He uses the analogy of the thief who becomes a disciple to illustrate how open-mindedness can lead to profound transformations.
    • Dr. Goswami emphasizes that skepticism should not be used as a barrier to exploring new ideas, but rather as a tool for critical thinking and open-minded inquiry.
13. The Mystery of Consciousness and the Role of Intuition
    • The podcast recognizes the inherent mystery surrounding consciousness and the challenges of fully understanding its nature and function.
    • Dr. Goswami emphasizes that the human mind is not solely rational and that intuition plays a vital role in understanding the world.
    • He suggests that trusting our intuition and embracing the mystery of consciousness are essential for personal growth and a more fulfilling life.
    • Dr. Goswami encourages listeners to be open to the possibilities that science is just beginning to unravel and to trust their own inner wisdom.
14. The Importance of Experimentation and Verification
    • Dr. Goswami emphasizes the need for empirical evidence and verification in scientific inquiry, particularly when it comes to unconventional concepts like non-locality and consciousness.
    • He highlights the importance of carefully designed experiments that can measure and validate these concepts, using objective methods rather than subjective experiences alone.
    • The podcast highlights the role of consciousness in shaping reality and the need for science to account for this dynamic element.
    • Dr. Goswami encourages listeners to be critical of claims that rely solely on speculation and to seek out evidence-based approaches to exploring these fundamental questions about consciousness and reality.
15. String Theory and the Limits of Theoretical Science
    • The podcast briefly touches on string theory, a highly complex theoretical framework that attempts to unify quantum physics and gravity.
    • Dr. Goswami expresses skepticism about string theory, arguing that it is currently unverified and may be too abstract to have practical applications.
    • He suggests that focusing solely on such theoretical constructs can distract us from addressing more pressing and tangible problems facing humanity.
    • The podcast encourages listeners to prioritize scientific inquiry that has real-world implications and that can contribute to a better understanding of human consciousness and the universe.

Memorable Quotes:

• “The most complex one of the most complex concepts of quantum physics is quantum leap. It’s a discontinuous transition, and that gives an idea of how foreign it is to a mind which thinks in the Newtonian fashion. You know, motion is continuous, and a quantum leap is discontinuous.”
• “This is why we did in a couple of hours too. Right. That’s around these ideas because, you know, they’re a little bit strange. What is possibility?”
• “The imagination is a quantum realm. Imagination takes us to develop more possibility. If we can do it from conscious into the unconscious.”
• “It’s not only saying that the smaller you go, but the plot thickens when you realize that the reality at the macro scale is made of the small things.”
• “The only reason I can I can find myself in the same bed every night when I wake up. The only reason for that is that because of a macro object, my wave of possibility, although it expands a little just as all wave must expand.”