8/4/2014
This podcast features Joe Rogan’s conversation with Vince and Emily Horn, creators of “Buddhist Geeks,” a podcast, online magazine, and annual conference focused on American Buddhism. The episode explores the intersection of spirituality, technology, and culture, delving into topics like meditation apps, social media’s impact, artificial intelligence, transhumanism, the nature of consciousness, and the role of compassion in a rapidly evolving world. Underlying themes examine the human need for innovation, the search for meaning, the limitations of the physical body, and the potential for profound transformations in the future.
1. Buddhist Rebels and Modern Mindfulness:
Vince and Emily discuss the rise of “Buddhist rebels” who challenge traditional practices and beliefs.
They highlight the shift toward integrating meditation into everyday life, especially through apps like “Beautify.”
Emily’s computer-focused meditation practices reflect this modern approach, encouraging mindfulness even during screen time.
They emphasize the importance of “meat space” experiences, suggesting that traditional meditation retreats still hold value over apps.
2. Facebook, Gossip, and Tribal Bonds:
Rogan, Vince, and Emily explore the fascination with social interaction, particularly evident in platforms like Facebook.
They discuss how this fascination reflects a deep-seated human need for community and belonging, especially in the face of modern societal fragmentation.
Marshall McLuhan’s theory of technology bringing back elements of the past is applied to Facebook’s ability to recreate the sense of living in a tribal village.
They acknowledge the potential pitfalls of social media, particularly the temptation to engage in gossip and celebrity obsession, which can distract from deeper meaning.
3. Artificial Intelligence, Superintelligence, and the Future of Humanity:
The conversation delves into the implications of artificial intelligence, particularly the potential for creating artificial superintelligence.
They explore Elon Musk’s idea of humans being “biological boot loaders” for digital superintelligence, suggesting a future where biological limitations are transcended.
Concerns arise about the possibility of a “Terminator-style” outcome if AI lacks compassion and understanding of its actions.
The role of biological urges, particularly the need for competition and dominance, is discussed as a potential stumbling block for AI’s development.
4. Compassion, the Evolutionary Device:
Vince and Emily argue that compassion is not merely a societal mechanism for cohesion but also an intrinsic force that holds life together.
They suggest that compassion arises naturally in moments of need and can be cultivated through practices like mindfulness and meditation.
They cite personal experiences of helping others in need, emphasizing the profound sense of satisfaction and elation that comes with compassionate action.
They acknowledge the potential for compassion to be used as a tool for societal control and maintain innovation, but ultimately believe it is a valuable force that transcends purely utilitarian motivations.
5. The Nature of Consciousness and the Search for Enlightenment:
Rogan, Vince, and Emily engage in a deep exploration of consciousness, exploring various perspectives and theories.
They consider the possibility of consciousness being independent of the physical body and potentially existing beyond the limitations of biology.
They discuss the use of psychedelic substances and sensory deprivation tanks as tools for accessing altered states of consciousness.
The conversation touches upon the potential for technological advancements like virtual reality to create experiences that mimic psychedelic states and facilitate the expansion of consciousness.
6. The Mystery of Time and the Infinite Multiverse:
The podcast delves into the concept of infinity, questioning the nature of time and the possibility of a multiverse.
They explore the idea that if the universe is truly infinite, then all possible timelines and events are occurring simultaneously, suggesting a vast and complex reality beyond our current understanding.
They consider the implications of this concept for consciousness, suggesting that our individual experiences may be just one variation within a vast and interconnected reality.
The possibility of consciousness being able to travel between universes or potentially experience multiple realities simultaneously is explored, raising fascinating questions about the nature of our existence.
7. The Big Bang, Miracles, and the Search for Meaning:
The conversation touches upon the big bang theory and the potential for our current understanding of the universe to be fundamentally flawed.
They acknowledge the possibility that scientific explanations like the big bang may be mere “myths” or “antiquated notions” that will be replaced by more accurate theories in the future.
They discuss the idea that consciousness may be a fundamental aspect of the universe, suggesting that even seemingly inanimate objects may possess a basic level of awareness.
They explore the potential for future scientific discoveries to reveal deeper truths about the universe and our place within it.
8. The Paradox of Natural and Artificial:
The podcast delves into the blurry lines between “natural” and “artificial,” arguing that human creations are ultimately part of the natural world.
They suggest that our concept of “unnatural” is often based on personal values and subjective perceptions of what is “good” or “bad.”
They point to the ongoing evolution of human consciousness and technology, suggesting that our current understanding of what is “natural” is likely to continue to change and evolve.
They encourage a broader perspective that encompasses the interconnectedness of all things and acknowledges the complexity of the natural world.
9. The Search for Balance in a World Without Balance:
The podcast explores the challenges of finding balance in a modern world that is often driven by extremes and a relentless pursuit of innovation.
They acknowledge the potential for technological advancements to create a world without biological limitations but question the purpose and meaning of such a future.
They emphasize the importance of integrating spiritual practices, such as meditation and mindfulness, into everyday life to cultivate a sense of peace, compassion, and balance.
They suggest that the true goal of spiritual practice is not simply to escape the limitations of the physical body but to integrate deeper understanding and wisdom into our lives.
10. The Journey of Transformation and Integration:
Vince and Emily share their personal experiences with Buddhist practice, acknowledging the challenges of integrating transformative insights into daily life.
They describe the process of spiritual bypassing, where individuals use spiritual practices to avoid confronting psychological challenges, highlighting the importance of addressing both inner and outer aspects of our being.
They emphasize the ongoing nature of spiritual development, suggesting that enlightenment is not an end state but a continual process of evolution and growth.
They encourage a sense of humility and interconnectedness, emphasizing the importance of finding balance between personal aspirations and collective responsibility.
11. The Role of Teachers and the Importance of Community:
The conversation highlights the role of teachers in spiritual practice, emphasizing the importance of finding mentors who are compassionate, understanding, and supportive.
They acknowledge the potential for power dynamics and the need for teachers to empower students to develop their own understanding and experience.
They emphasize the importance of community in spiritual practice, suggesting that connecting with others on a similar journey can provide valuable support and encouragement.
They discuss the importance of embracing different approaches and perspectives, recognizing the diversity of human experience and the value of finding a practice that resonates with each individual.
12. The Buddhist Geeks Dojo and the Future of Spiritual Practice:
Vince and Emily share their vision for the “Buddhist Geeks Dojo,” a virtual space for online retreats and spiritual practice.
They explain their desire to create a space for individuals to connect, share their experiences, and support each other on their spiritual journey.
They acknowledge the limitations of existing frameworks and explore the potential for technology to create new and innovative forms of spiritual practice.
They envision a future where technology and spirituality converge to create a more inclusive and accessible path to deeper understanding and meaning.
13. The Evolution of Buddhism and the Shift Toward the Immanent:
The conversation touches upon the ongoing evolution of Buddhism, particularly the shift away from monasticism and toward a more integrated approach to spiritual practice within everyday life.
They discuss the rise of mindfulness and secular Buddhism, suggesting that these movements reflect a broader societal shift toward embracing spiritual values without necessarily adhering to religious dogma.
They acknowledge the diversity within Buddhism and the existence of different approaches and perspectives, emphasizing the importance of finding a practice that resonates with each individual.
They explore the potential for Buddhism to continue to evolve and adapt to the changing needs of society in a rapidly evolving world.
14. The Power of Mind Training and the Benefits of Compassion:
Vince and Emily share their personal experiences with Buddhist mind training, highlighting the benefits of increased compassion, openness, and freedom.
They acknowledge the challenges of integrating these insights into daily life, particularly the need to address ingrained patterns of thought and behavior.
They emphasize the importance of continuous practice and the value of finding balance between intellectual understanding and embodied experience.
They believe that through consistent effort and a commitment to cultivating compassion, individuals can unlock their potential for greater peace, joy, and connection.
15. The Buddhist Experience and the Search for Meaning:
The conversation concludes with a reflection on the significance of the Buddhist experience, emphasizing the importance of finding meaning and purpose within our lives.
They highlight the role of the Buddhist Geeks podcast as a means of connecting with others and sharing insights about the transformative power of spiritual practice.
They invite listeners to engage with their content and explore the potential for Buddhism to enhance their own lives.
They encourage a spirit of curiosity, openness, and compassion as we navigate the complexities of our human experience and the vast and mysterious universe we inhabit.
5 Memorable Quotes:
1. “I love that Buddhism has rebels. Absolutely.” – Joe Rogan acknowledges the refreshing dynamism within the tradition, emphasizing its capacity for evolution.
2. “Our oceans are gonna rebel and, like, our earth is gonna become unstable and we’re seeing some of that. So we do have to balance the biological component with the evolutionary impulse.” – Emily Horn highlights the urgent need to consider the ecological implications of technological advancement.
3. “There’s this biological need for innovation, this biological need for constant improvement, and it’s it’s designed in the evolutionary process itself.” – Joe Rogan underscores the driving force behind human progress, connecting it to our biological nature.
4. “I think it’s crazy too that people figured out how to to pay attention and and use their body in a way to produce some of those effects endogenously, you know, to be able to experience that even without mushrooms.” – Vincent Horn acknowledges the power of meditation to achieve altered states of consciousness without the use of external substances.
5. “It’s like the the concept of the infinity, like, no. No. No. This is the this is a unique moment. This unique not no. Not really.” – Joe Rogan, grappling with the concept of infinity, expresses a common human reaction to the vastness and complexity of the universe.