JRE #608 – Ali Rizvi

2/4/2015

This podcast dives into Ali Rizvi’s journey as a self-described “atheist Muslim,” exploring the complexities of faith, identity, and modern interpretations of Islam. Rizvi unpacks the challenges of reconciling personal beliefs with traditional interpretations, particularly in areas like homosexuality and gender equality. The conversation touches upon the global landscape of Islamic practice, highlighting the contrast between progressive and conservative interpretations, and the role of both religious and cultural factors in shaping these differences. The podcast delves into provocative topics like the influence of US foreign policy on the rise of extremism, the dangers of scriptural literalism, and the limitations of free speech in a world grappling with extremism. Underlying themes explore the struggle for individual autonomy within restrictive religious systems, the role of power and wealth in perpetuating archaic beliefs, and the importance of open dialogue and critical thinking in combating harmful ideologies.

1. The Atheist Muslim: A Paradoxical Identity

• Ali Rizvi uses the term “atheist Muslim” as a tongue-in-cheek critique of cherry-picking religious beliefs.
• He argues that accepting certain aspects of Islam while rejecting others, such as homosexuality, creates an internal inconsistency.
• Rizvi highlights the growing presence of progressive Muslim communities in North America, where faith is often more about identity than strict adherence to dogma.
• He draws parallels between this trend and American Jews, many of whom identify as Jewish despite not practicing the religion actively.

2. The Role of Religion in Group Identity

• Rizvi argues that religion often serves as a strong source of group identity, fostering a sense of belonging and camaraderie.
• This sense of belonging can sometimes translate into a “us versus them” mentality, especially when groups have diametrically opposed views.
• He uses the example of the current global climate, where being a Muslim can be a highly unpopular and dangerous identity in many regions.
• Rizvi suggests that this group identity can lead to blind loyalty, making it difficult for individuals to challenge or question harmful beliefs within their community.

3. Examining the Horrors of ISIS: A Product of Extremism or a Tool of Geopolitics?

• Rizvi grapples with the disturbing acts committed by ISIS, acknowledging the undeniable evil of the group’s actions.
• He entertains the provocative idea that ISIS might be a purposefully created entity designed to justify Western intervention in the Middle East, although he ultimately rejects this conspiracy theory.
• Rizvi stresses that while ISIS does not represent the majority of Muslims, it does have a significant following, fueled by a combination of religious ideology and political grievances.
• He highlights the dangers of dismissing ISIS as a fringe group, emphasizing that the organization has widespread support, particularly online, even among individuals who might not directly participate in its acts of violence.

4. The Moral Complexities of Drone Strikes: A Question of Bad Versus Worse?

• Rizvi explores the contentious issue of drone strikes, acknowledging their controversial nature and potential for collateral damage.
• He acknowledges the ethical arguments against drone strikes, including the lack of direct engagement and the resulting detachment from the consequences of violence.
• However, he also presents the perspective that drone strikes can be a more surgically precise method of targeting individuals involved in acts of terrorism compared to traditional warfare.
• Rizvi argues that the decision to use drone strikes is ultimately a complex one, a choice between two imperfect options, often made in the context of ongoing conflict and the need to prevent greater atrocities.

5. The Power of Ideology: How Religious Belief Can Drive Horrific Acts

• Rizvi emphasizes the powerful influence of religious ideology in motivating individuals to commit horrific acts.
• He argues that when individuals believe they are acting in the name of God, they are more likely to justify actions that would otherwise be considered morally reprehensible.
• He points to the literal interpretation of the Quran within extremist groups as a key driver of their violence, using specific verses to justify targeting non-Muslims, apostates, and even innocent civilians.
• Rizvi suggests that this reliance on scriptural literalism creates a dangerous framework where critical thinking and moral reasoning are replaced by blind obedience to ancient texts.

6. The US-Saudi Alliance: A Complicated Partnership

• Rizvi critiques the US alliance with Saudi Arabia, pointing to the country’s abysmal human rights record and its ongoing practice of beheadings, lashings, and other forms of corporal punishment.
• He argues that the US’s reliance on Saudi oil has allowed the country to maintain its oppressive practices, despite international condemnation.
• Rizvi highlights the hypocrisy of Western leaders who praise Saudi leaders as reformers while overlooking their atrocities, suggesting that the pursuit of economic and geopolitical interests often trumps moral concerns.
• He emphasizes the importance of challenging the status quo and holding powerful nations accountable for their actions, especially when they are complicit in human rights abuses.

7. The Perils of “Islamophobia” as a Silencing Tool

• Rizvi takes a critical stance against the term “Islamophobia,” arguing that it often serves as a tool to silence criticism of Islam.
• He argues that while there is genuine anti-Muslim bigotry, equating criticism of an ideology with racism is both inaccurate and harmful.
• Rizvi suggests that this use of “Islamophobia” creates an atmosphere of fear and self-censorship, preventing open dialogue and hindering progress toward a more tolerant and inclusive society.
• He draws a parallel with the use of terms like “misogynist” or “woman hater” to silence criticism of feminist ideology, highlighting the dangers of silencing dissent through simplistic labels.

8. The Importance of Free Speech: A Fundamental Right Under Attack

• Rizvi emphasizes the importance of free speech, arguing that it is a fundamental human right essential for progress and the advancement of knowledge.
• He criticizes the increasing trend of silencing dissenting voices through calls for censorship, arguing that this undermines the very foundation of free expression.
• Rizvi highlights the hypocrisy of those who claim that free speech does not mean the freedom to offend, arguing that offense is inherent to the exercise of free speech.
• He suggests that the fear of retribution and the desire to avoid offense have become powerful forces that stifle dialogue and prevent people from engaging in critical thinking and challenging harmful ideologies.

9. The Dangers of Scriptural Literalism

• Rizvi discusses the dangers of taking religious texts literally, particularly in the context of Islam.
• He argues that the idea of scriptural inerrancy, the belief that religious texts are infallible and free from error, leads to a dangerous and inflexible approach to faith.
• Rizvi highlights how extremist groups use literal interpretations of the Quran to justify violence and oppression, often ignoring the historical context and cultural nuances of the text.
• He suggests that moving beyond scriptural literalism is a necessary step towards a more progressive and tolerant interpretation of Islam, allowing for a more nuanced and critical understanding of religious texts.

10. The Role of Secularism in Fostering Religious Tolerance

• Rizvi argues that secularism is the only system that can effectively promote religious freedom and coexistence.
• He highlights how secularism separates religion from the state, allowing for diverse religious beliefs to flourish while preventing any single faith from wielding political power.
• Rizvi suggests that secularism creates a space for open dialogue and debate, enabling individuals to question religious dogma and engage in critical thinking without fear of persecution.
• He argues that embracing secularism is a crucial step towards a more rational and tolerant society, one where individuals are free to pursue their own beliefs without fear of oppression.

11. The Importance of Critical Thinking and Open Dialogue

• Rizvi emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and open dialogue in combating harmful ideologies.
• He argues that we must be willing to challenge established beliefs, even if they are deeply ingrained in our culture or religion.
• Rizvi stresses the importance of examining the root causes of extremism, including the role of religious ideology, political grievances, and social inequality.
• He suggests that only through a process of open and honest dialogue can we hope to understand and address the complex challenges facing our world today.

12. A Personal Glimpse into the Realities of Religious Oppression

• Rizvi shares personal anecdotes from his childhood in Saudi Arabia, illustrating the realities of living under a strict religious regime.
• He recounts the story of having his snowflake artwork censored in school because of its resemblance to the Star of David, highlighting the pervasive fear and prejudice towards Jews in the region.
• Rizvi describes the use of textbooks that promote anti-Semitic and anti-Christian narratives, emphasizing how these ideologies are ingrained in the education system and shaping the minds of young people.
• He shares stories of public executions and lashings, exposing the brutal reality of living under a regime where religious law is enforced with extreme violence.

13. The Disturbing Legacy of Religious Extremism: A Global Crisis

• Rizvi discusses the global threat of religious extremism, highlighting the devastating impact of groups like ISIS and Boko Haram.
• He points to the horrific attacks on schools in Pakistan and the kidnapping of schoolgirls in Nigeria, emphasizing the vulnerability of children to these ideologies.
• Rizvi explores the disturbing mindset of extremist groups, including their belief in an afterlife, their justification of violence, and their distorted view of death and martyrdom.
• He suggests that the world is grappling with a dangerous and increasingly complex crisis, one that requires careful analysis, open dialogue, and a commitment to promoting human rights and tolerance.

14. The Power of Mockery: A Weapon Against Authoritarianism

• Rizvi argues that mockery can be a powerful tool against authoritarian regimes and oppressive ideologies.
• He uses the example of the satirical film “The Interview,” which ridiculed North Korea’s leader Kim Jong-un, provoking a strong reaction from the regime.
• Rizvi suggests that authoritarian leaders, who often rely on fear and intimidation, are particularly sensitive to mockery, as it challenges their authority and undermines their legitimacy.
• He argues that satire and humor can be effective ways to expose the absurdity of harmful ideologies and challenge the power structures that uphold them.

15. The Need for Reform and Progress within Islam

• Rizvi advocates for reform within the Islamic community, emphasizing the need to move beyond archaic beliefs and embrace a more progressive understanding of faith.
• He argues that the Islamic world is at a crossroads, facing the choice between maintaining its traditional interpretations or adapting to a rapidly changing world.
• Rizvi suggests that a shift away from scriptural literalism and a greater emphasis on community over ideology could lead to a more tolerant and inclusive understanding of Islam.
• He expresses hope that the Islamic community will embrace reform and progress, creating a more peaceful and equitable future for all.

5 Memorable Quotes:

• “The tongue and cheek thing is I was I have a friend who’s she calls herself a feminist Muslim. So I’m not gonna name her right now. Oh, okay. So I always have fun converse stations with her. You know, she’s, like, sort of nominally religious. Right. And, you know, I I was, like, how can you be a feminist Muslim? Isn’t that, like, being a meat eating vegetable? carrier in or — Right. — you know, it’s it’s a contradiction. And she’s like, well, no. There’s parts of it that I like, parts of it I don’t like. So I just then she’s essentially saying that she cherrypigs.” – Rizvi uses humor to highlight the internal inconsistencies of cherry-picking religious beliefs.
• “This whole idea that they’re a fringe and, you know, that they don’t have a lot of support. You know, it it is one thing that, yes, they don’t represent all Muslims. Like, they don’t even represent, you know, the majority of Muslims and everything. But, unfortunately, like, I I think they have a lot more support than we’d like to believe everybody who comes out and says that, you know, just like a friend, just a, you know, group of guys who are doing this stuff and nobody really follows them. That’s not true. Like, there’s a lot of support.” – Rizvi cautions against dismissing ISIS as a fringe group, emphasizing the organization’s widespread support.
• “The moment atheism starts standing for something — Mhmm. — beyond just not believing in the God. Right. The moment that happens, you start, you know, there’s this fragmentation that starts to take place.” – Rizvi argues that defining atheism in terms of specific political or social stances can lead to exclusion and division within the movement.
• “I think, like, with with with with Jews and with Christians, that they were able to like have a genuine reformation where they’re able to bond and come together on a sense of community rather than ideology.” – Rizvi highlights the importance of community over ideology in fostering religious tolerance and allowing for diverse interpretations of faith.
• “The operating system of fundamental religion is so fucking broken. know. And and they a lot of times, they think that they have the updated software. Like, we have the most we have the most recent religion, you know, like a Som came after Christianity came after — Mhmm. — and then we had this great civilization.” – Rizvi uses a humorous analogy to illustrate the outdated nature of fundamentalist religious beliefs and their incompatibility with modern society.