JRE #645 – Joe Schilling

This podcast dives into the world of Joe Schilling, an American Muay Thai kickboxer and MMA fighter. Rogan and Schilling discuss Schilling’s unique approach to training and fighting, including his unconventional habit of smoking cigarettes. This leads to a deep exploration of the mental and physical demands of combat sports, weight cutting, and the influence of different training methodologies.

Provocative and controversial topics include Schilling’s cigarette smoking, weight cutting practices, the effectiveness of training methods like sensory deprivation tanks, and the mental game of fighting. Underlying themes explore the dedication and resilience required to excel in combat sports, the complexities of mental and physical conditioning, and the controversial aspects of the fighting world.

Topics Covered:

1. Joe Schilling’s Cigarette Smoking:
   • Schilling’s smoking habit is a major point of discussion, with Rogan expressing disbelief and concern.
   • Schilling admits that smoking is detrimental to his cardio but believes it’s something he’s done for so long that he’s adapted to it.
   • Schilling’s smoking raises questions about the impact of nicotine on athletic performance and the long-term health consequences for fighters.
   • The topic leads to a wider discussion about smoking, vaping, and the role of tobacco companies in marketing and addiction.
2. Mental and Physical Conditioning:
   • Schilling and Rogan discuss the importance of mental toughness in fighting and the impact of stress and pressure.
   • Schilling credits Vinny Sharma, a mental coach, for helping him overcome resentment towards his father and improve his mental game.
   • The podcast explores different training methods, including weightlifting, running, sensory deprivation tanks, and visualization techniques.
   • Schilling emphasizes the importance of finding a balance between strength and conditioning and skill development.
3. Weight Cutting:
   • Schilling and Rogan discuss the dangers and controversies surrounding weight cutting in MMA and kickboxing.
   • The podcast highlights the dehydration risks, potential for kidney failure, and the impact on performance.
   • The discussion includes alternative weight management strategies, such as low-carb diets and the use of Epsom salts.
   • Schilling and Rogan agree that weight cutting is a dangerous practice that needs to be addressed by athletic commissions.
4. MMA vs. Kickboxing:
   • Schilling discusses the challenges of competing in both MMA and kickboxing, emphasizing the different skill sets required.
   • The podcast explores the difficulty of balancing training camps for two different sports, particularly with the demands of wrestling and grappling in MMA.
   • Schilling expresses his passion for kickboxing but acknowledges the need to improve his grappling game in MMA.
   • The discussion highlights the contrasting styles of fighting in MMA and kickboxing, leading to a debate about the role of stand-up striking versus ground fighting.
5. Sensory Deprivation Tanks:
   • Schilling details his use of sensory deprivation tanks, emphasizing their benefits for relaxation, mental focus, and visualization training.
   • The podcast explores the history of sensory deprivation tanks and the work of John Lilly, a pioneer in the field.
   • Schilling describes his experience in the tank, including the feelings of weightlessness and the ability to improve his mental and physical performance.
   • The discussion raises questions about the potential of sensory deprivation tanks for athletic training and other applications.
6. Combat Sports Judging and Officiating:
   • Schilling and Rogan express frustration with inconsistent judging and officiating in combat sports.
   • The podcast highlights concerns about unqualified judges, scoring discrepancies, and the lack of accountability for officials.
   • Schilling and Rogan discuss the importance of judges having a deep understanding of the rules and techniques of the sport.
   • The discussion explores potential solutions, including the use of online judging panels and the need for more transparency in scoring decisions.
7. Fighters’ Unions and the Business of MMA:
   • Schilling and Rogan discuss the need for better fighter representation and the potential for a fighters’ union.
   • The podcast explores the power dynamics between fighters and promotions, highlighting concerns about fighter pay and contractual fairness.
   • The discussion touches on the Reebok sponsorship deal in the UFC, which has been criticized for reducing fighter income.
   • Schilling and Rogan agree that greater competition among promotions is crucial for improving fighter rights and compensation.
8. The Mental Impact of Loss and Tragedy:
   • Schilling shares a personal story about the loss of his father and a cousin, both of whom passed away during a difficult period in his life.
   • The podcast explores the emotional toll of dealing with grief and tragedy while trying to maintain focus on his fighting career.
   • Schilling credits mental coaching for helping him process his emotions and find the strength to continue.
   • The discussion highlights the importance of mental support and resilience in overcoming personal challenges.
9. The Role of Wild Game in Diet and Performance:
   • Schilling discusses his preference for eating wild game, including moose, elk, and bison, believing it enhances his athletic performance.
   • The podcast explores the potential benefits of wild game meat, particularly its high creatine content.
   • Schilling describes his passion for hunting and his belief in the ethical sourcing of food.
   • The discussion touches on the cultural significance of hunting and the importance of understanding the impact of diet on athletic performance.
10. The Fascination with Exotic Animals:
    • Schilling shares his past experiences with owning piranhas and turtles, highlighting his interest in exotic animals.
    • The podcast delves into the fascinating aspects of these animals, their behavior, and the challenges of keeping them.
    • Schilling expresses a desire to have a monkey, but acknowledges the responsibilities and potential dangers involved.
    • The discussion touches on the ethical considerations of keeping exotic animals and the importance of responsible pet ownership.
11. The Weird and Wonderful World of Nature:
    • Schilling and Rogan explore the bizarre and often disturbing aspects of the natural world.
    • The podcast discusses the physical capabilities of animals, including gorillas, chimpanzees, and hyenas.
    • Schilling and Rogan share their fascination with the unusual physical characteristics of certain animals, like hairless bears and baboons.
    • The discussion highlights the importance of respecting and understanding the diverse and often unpredictable nature of the animal kingdom.

5 Memorable Quotes:

• “I don’t like I said, I can’t I can’t justify it. I’m really I’m about ready to quit. My last five of my cardio is you know, I’ve done kickboxing for so long where, you know, I get tired like anybody else, but for whatever reason, it’s never really bothered me that much. And in the last fight, he was holding me a lot, and this the cardio system is completely different. And it’s, yeah, it’s coming to an end. I’m I’m getting really sick of smoking. I’m getting really sick of explaining having this conversation, Joe.”
• “It’s almost like you fucking can’t keep up with it. Yeah. It’s it’s a lot of shit going on there. I don’t know how to fix the weight. I mean, it’s gotta be an issue in boxing, you know. We just don’t talk about it.”
• “That’s the dark secret of combat sports is the weight cut. It’s very dangerous. You you heard about that guy that just died recently, kidney failure?”
• “The mind is a motherfucker, isn’t it? Yeah. It’s really it really is.”
• “It’s almost like a seminar on your life. Mhmm. And if I have, like, a jujitsu moves, it’s gray for jujitsu moves. Like, I’ll drill jujitsu moves in my mind. And the way I’ll do it is I’ll line the tank, and I’ll go over positions as if they’re happening in real life.”