JRE #689 – Abby Martin

8/25/2015

#689 – Abby Martin

In this episode, Joe Rogan welcomes Abby Martin, a journalist known for her critical stance on US foreign policy and her former role with RT America. The conversation sparks a range of provocative and controversial topics, unraveling deep-seated themes about the nature of truth, the dangers of unchecked power, and the complex role of media in shaping public perception.

1. Manufactured Outrage and the Cecil the Lion Controversy:
   • The podcast opens with Joe Rogan’s frustration over the public’s intense reaction to the death of Cecil the lion, contrasting it with the lack of attention given to other tragedies.
   • Abby Martin argues the outrage was “manufactured” and amplified by media coverage, highlighting the tendency for people to gravitate towards sensationalized stories.
   • She draws a poignant parallel to the disproportionate attention given to animal welfare issues compared to human suffering, particularly in regions like the Congo where children die from preventable causes.
   • This topic explores the complex relationship between empathy, media manipulation, and the selective prioritization of issues in a globalized world.
2. Online Bullying and the Aftermath of Chris Kyle Controversy:
   • Abby Martin recounts her personal experience with online harassment and death threats following her criticism of Chris Kyle, the subject of the film “American Sniper.”
   • She expresses concern over the escalation of online bullying and the lack of accountability for those perpetrating it.
   • The discussion raises the issue of public discourse in the digital age and the ease with which individuals can become targets of vitriol and violence.
   • It touches upon the vulnerability of individuals, particularly women, to online harassment and the need for stronger protections against such abuse.
3. Debunking the Myth of Chris Kyle and the Iraq War:
   • Abby Martin critiques the portrayal of Chris Kyle as a hero in “American Sniper,” challenging the narrative of the Iraq War presented in the film.
   • She highlights the potential for war propaganda to distort reality and glorify violence, questioning Kyle’s actions and motives.
   • The conversation explores the complexities of war, the psychological impact on soldiers, and the importance of examining historical events with a critical lens.
   • It delves into the ethical dilemmas surrounding war and the need for accountability for those involved in military operations.
4. The Importance of Context and Examining Casualty Numbers in the Iraq War:
   • Abby Martin and Joe Rogan engage in a heated discussion about the casualty figures for the Iraq War, with Abby Martin highlighting the unreliability of official numbers.
   • She critiques Sam Harris’s attempt to dismiss her figures as “hyperbolic,” arguing that even the lowest estimates point to a horrific loss of innocent lives.
   • The debate underscores the difficulty in quantifying human suffering and the need for a nuanced understanding of the consequences of war.
   • It raises questions about the role of experts in public discourse and the importance of considering emotional and ethical dimensions alongside quantitative data.
5. The Rise of ISIS and the Self-Fulfilling Prophecy of US Foreign Policy:
   • Abby Martin and Joe Rogan discuss the rise of ISIS, arguing that it is a direct consequence of US intervention in the Middle East and the destabilizing effects of war.
   • They highlight the irony of the US backing off from intervention in Syria and then witnessing the rise of ISIS in the very vacuum it created.
   • This topic examines the complex web of international politics and the unintended consequences of US foreign policy interventions.
   • It explores the cyclical nature of violence and the difficulty in containing conflict once it is ignited.
6. The Problem of “Sanctioned Murder” and the Militarization of Society:
   • Abby Martin points out the hypocrisy of a society that condemns murder but condones it in the context of war, questioning the ethics of sanctioned killing.
   • She criticizes the militarization of American society, from sports events to everyday life, arguing that it perpetuates a culture of violence and aggression.
   • The discussion highlights the dangerous normalization of violence and the need for a more peaceful and empathetic approach to conflict resolution.
   • It calls for a critical examination of the role of the military-industrial complex and the pervasive influence of militarism in shaping societal values.
7. The Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the Perpetuation of American Exceptionalism:
   • Abby Martin challenges the narrative that the atomic bombings were necessary to end World War II, citing evidence that Japan was already seeking surrender.
   • She argues that the bombings were a war crime, highlighting the horrific consequences for the Japanese people and the enduring impact of radiation poisoning.
   • This topic delves into the dark side of American history, exposing the dangerous ideology of American exceptionalism and the tendency to justify atrocities in the name of national interest.
   • It raises questions about the long-term consequences of nuclear weapons and the need for global cooperation to prevent future tragedies.
8. The “Star Wars” Program and the Mysterious Deaths of Scientists:
   • Abby Martin and Joe Rogan discuss the “Star Wars” program, a Reagan-era initiative aimed at creating a space-based defense system against missiles.
   • They delve into a conspiracy theory surrounding the program, suggesting that a large number of scientists involved mysteriously died, either by suicide or murder.
   • This topic explores the shadowy world of government secrecy, the potential for cover-ups, and the dangers of unchecked power in the hands of those with access to classified information.
   • It highlights the importance of transparency and accountability in government operations, particularly when dealing with sensitive technologies and national security.
9. The Case of Pat Tillman and the Disturbing Trend of Silencing Dissent:
   • Abby Martin and Joe Rogan discuss the case of Pat Tillman, a former NFL player who joined the military and died in Afghanistan.
   • They address the conspiracy theory that Tillman was intentionally killed by friendly fire because of his growing opposition to the war.
   • This topic examines the potential for silencing dissent within the military and the dangers of suppressing critical thinking in the name of patriotism or national security.
   • It underscores the importance of independent investigations and the need to protect freedom of speech, even when it challenges official narratives.
10. The Jessica Lynch Saga and the Manipulation of Public Perception:
    • Abby Martin and Joe Rogan discuss the Jessica Lynch story, a highly publicized rescue mission that involved a young American soldier captured in Iraq.
    • They question the authenticity of the narrative, suggesting that it was manipulated for propaganda purposes and that Lynch was used as a tool for promoting the war effort.
    • This topic highlights the power of media narratives in shaping public opinion and the potential for manipulation in times of war and conflict.
    • It raises concerns about the exploitation of individuals for political gain and the need for critical analysis of information presented by official sources.
11. The Normalization of Surveillance and the Erosion of Privacy in the Post-9/11 Era:
    • Abby Martin discusses the erosion of privacy in the post-9/11 era, highlighting the increasing powers of surveillance and the normalization of government intrusion into citizens’ lives.
    • She critiques the Obama administration’s rhetoric of transparency and accountability, arguing that it has been contradicted by the expansion of surveillance programs and the silencing of whistleblowers.
    • This topic explores the complex relationship between security and freedom, the implications of mass surveillance for individual liberties, and the need for ongoing vigilance against government overreach.
    • It raises questions about the future of privacy in a technologically advanced world and the need for robust safeguards against abuse of power.
12. The Strange World of Reality TV and the Appeal of Suffering:
    • Abby Martin and Joe Rogan discuss the nature of reality television and the seemingly insatiable human desire to consume narratives of suffering and the bizarre.
    • They question the authenticity of many reality shows and the ethical implications of exploiting individuals for entertainment purposes.
    • This topic delves into the psychology of entertainment consumption, exploring the fascination with the grotesque and the voyeuristic nature of modern media.
    • It raises questions about the role of media in shaping our values and the potential for exploitation in the pursuit of ratings and profits.
13. The Mormon Lobby and the Distortion of History:
    • Abby Martin recounts a humorous anecdote about visiting Arches National Park in Utah and discovering a disclaimer stating that all the geological evidence is “circumstantial.”
    • She speculates that the Mormon lobby may have influenced the park’s interpretation of its history, highlighting the potential for religious beliefs to distort scientific understanding.
    • This topic explores the intersection of religion, science, and politics, underscoring the importance of separating faith from fact and promoting critical thinking.
    • It touches upon the influence of powerful religious groups in shaping public narratives and the potential for manipulating scientific evidence to fit ideological agendas.
14. The Hypocrisy of the Mormon Church and the Legacy of Mitt Romney:
    • Abby Martin and Joe Rogan discuss the Mormon Church, highlighting its history of polygamy and the legacy of Mitt Romney, a prominent Mormon who ran for president.
    • They expose the hypocrisy of the Mormon Church in its stance on family values and its history of promoting discriminatory practices.
    • This topic examines the complexities of religious institutions, their potential for both good and ill, and the importance of holding them accountable for their actions.
    • It raises questions about the intersection of faith, politics, and personal ethics and the need for a nuanced understanding of religious beliefs and practices.
15. The Perpetuation of Stereotypes and the Dangers of Generalizations:
    • Abby Martin and Joe Rogan engage in a lively discussion about the dangers of stereotypes and generalizations, particularly those related to race, sexuality, and political ideology.
    • They highlight the absurdity of judging individuals based on their perceived political affiliations or their presumed sexual orientation.
    • This topic underscores the importance of challenging preconceived notions and promoting understanding and respect for diversity.
    • It calls for a more nuanced and critical approach to human interaction, encouraging open-mindedness and avoiding harmful generalizations.
16. The Hypocrisy of the US Embargo on Cuba and the Contradictions of US Foreign Policy:
    • Abby Martin discusses the US embargo on Cuba, highlighting its negative impact on the Cuban people and the hypocrisy of the US in maintaining it.
    • She criticizes the US government’s use of subversion tactics to destabilize the Cuban government, citing examples like the creation of a fake Twitter account to stir up dissent.
    • This topic examines the complexities of international relations, the use of economic pressure as a tool of foreign policy, and the potential for unintended consequences.
    • It raises questions about the effectiveness of sanctions and the need for a more constructive approach to resolving international disputes.
17. The “Wet Foot, Dry Foot” Policy and the Double Standards of Immigration:
    • Abby Martin discusses the “Wet Foot, Dry Foot” policy, which grants Cuban immigrants automatic residency if they reach US soil.
    • She highlights the unfairness of this policy, which creates a double standard for immigrants based solely on their nationality.
    • This topic examines the complexities of immigration policy, the potential for discrimination based on nationality, and the need for a more equitable and humane approach to immigration.
    • It raises questions about the role of compassion and fairness in shaping immigration policies and the need to address systemic inequalities that contribute to migration patterns.
18. The Power of Basic Needs and the Cuban Experience:
    • Abby Martin shares her experiences traveling to Cuba and witnessing the absence of homelessness and the emphasis on providing basic needs for its citizens.
    • She contrasts the Cuban system with the American approach, suggesting that meeting basic needs can lead to lower crime rates and a greater sense of community.
    • This topic explores the relationship between social welfare, economic inequality, and public safety, prompting a discussion about the effectiveness of different societal models.
    • It raises questions about the role of government in providing for its citizens and the potential for social systems to address issues like poverty and homelessness.
19. The Future of Cuba and the Challenges of Transition:
    • Abby Martin reflects on the recent easing of the US embargo on Cuba and the potential impact on the country.
    • She expresses concern about the US government’s continued subversion tactics and the potential for economic exploitation as Cuba opens up to foreign investment.
    • This topic examines the complexities of transitioning from a centrally planned economy to a more market-based system and the challenges of navigating political and economic change.
    • It raises questions about the potential for Cuba to maintain its social progress while embracing economic liberalization and the need for international support to ensure a just and equitable transition.
20. The Legacy of the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base and the Perpetuation of American Imperialism:
    • Abby Martin discusses the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, highlighting the US government’s refusal to return it to Cuba despite a lease agreement that expired decades ago.
    • She argues that the US continues to assert its dominance over Cuba through its continued occupation of the base, demonstrating a disregard for international law and Cuban sovereignty.
    • This topic examines the history of American imperialism, the enduring power of the United States, and the challenges of dismantling legacies of colonial dominance.
    • It raises questions about the future of US-Cuban relations and the need for a more equitable and respectful approach to international interactions.
21. The Double Standards of US Foreign Policy and the Hypocrisy of Global Power:
    • Abby Martin and Joe Rogan discuss the hypocrisy of the US in criticizing other countries for human rights violations while engaging in its own questionable practices.
    • They highlight the US’s close relationship with Saudi Arabia, a country known for its oppressive laws and its human rights abuses.
    • This topic examines the complex web of international relations, the challenges of upholding universal values in a world of competing interests, and the need for a more consistent and principled approach to foreign policy.
    • It raises questions about the responsibility of powerful nations to promote human rights and the need for a more equitable and just world order.

5 Memorable Quotes:

1. “It just seemed really manufactured, especially when I read interviews with people who lived there, and they were like, who the fuck is Cecil the lion.” – Abby Martin critiques the media hype surrounding the Cecil the lion controversy.
2. “You can’t really compare the two. But I just think it’s really important to understand the real history of the Iraq War, and I think American sniper really not only whitewashed it, but just doubled down on the myth.” – Abby Martin challenges the narrative presented in “American Sniper” and calls for a deeper understanding of the Iraq War.
3. “I don’t have the answers. I do think that regional players need to take a step in. That means Syria, that means, you know, Iraq, people in the region that understand the region and are not coming from, like, this new colonial lens and just, like, all we have is military solutions.” – Abby Martin advocates for a more nuanced approach to dealing with the conflict in the Middle East.
4. “The world’s on fire. It’s on fire.” – Abby Martin emphasizes the urgency of addressing global issues and the need for collective action.
5. “It’s just always weird when someone goes, they go that route, anti same sex marriage…pro…going against the grain, it’s like, I’m gonna still prosecute America.” – Abby Martin critiques the hypocrisy of politicians who claim to be “pro-America” while promoting discriminatory policies.