JRE MMA Show #81 with Dave Leduc

This podcast features Joe Rogan interviewing Dave Leduc, the current openweight Lethwei World Champion and current WLC Cruiserweight World Champion. The conversation dives deep into Leduc’s unique path to becoming a champion in this brutal combat sport, highlighting the dedication, grit, and resilience required to succeed. Provocative topics include the legality of Lethwei in Canada, the cultural significance of Lethwei in Myanmar, and the ethical considerations surrounding headbutts in combat sports. Underlying themes explore the allure of extreme challenges, the importance of overcoming adversity, and the ongoing evolution of martial arts.

Major Topics:

1. Dave Leduc’s Early Life and Transition to Fighting
   • Leduc’s initial passion for baseball and his expulsion from home at 17 due to conflict with his father.
   • The hardship of being homeless in Montreal at minus 20 degrees Celsius and how it sparked a desire to fight.
   • Leduc’s early involvement in grappling and organizing a submission fighting league in Quebec.
   • His coach’s suggestion to pursue striking due to his height and reach, eventually leading him to Sanda and a journey to Thailand.
2. The Brutal World of Lethwei
   • Lethwei’s unique ruleset: no gloves, takedowns allowed, elbows to the head, headbutts, and soccer kicks.
   • The emphasis on aggression and finishing fights, with a “no points” system resulting in a focus on knockouts.
   • The cultural significance of Lethwei in Myanmar and its popularity among the local population.
   • The ethical debate surrounding Lethwei’s brutality, particularly regarding headbutts and the potential for brain damage.
3. Dave Leduc’s Journey to Lethwei Championship
   • Leduc’s initial foray into Muay Thai in Thailand and his unconventional approach to the sport, emphasizing aggression and unconventional techniques.
   • His experience fighting in a maximum-security prison outside of Bangkok for the “Prison Fight” promotion, where inmates earned sentence reductions for victories.
   • His first Lethwei fight and his successful adaptation to the ruleset, resulting in a disfiguring victory over the Latvian champion.
   • His subsequent rise through the ranks, culminating in becoming the openweight Lethwei World Champion and earning recognition as one of the most famous Lethwei fighters globally.
4. The Importance of Adaptation and Mental Toughness
   • Leduc’s experience facing a variety of opponents, including experienced Muay Thai fighters, and his ability to adapt his fighting style to different rulesets.
   • His emphasis on mental resilience and his unwavering dedication to training and competing, even when facing adversity.
   • The “injury timeout” rule in traditional Lethwei and the extreme measures taken by fighters to recover and continue the fight.
   • The importance of embracing pain and discomfort as part of the athlete’s journey, rather than allowing it to hinder progress.
5. Dave Leduc’s Unique Training Methods
   • Leduc’s innovative approach to incorporating headbutts into pad work, a technique he developed to enhance his striking ability and reduce the risk of injury.
   • His dedication to neck training, emphasizing the importance of neck strength for headbutt effectiveness and concussion prevention.
   • His unconventional training regimen, which includes knuckle pushups, finger pushups, and wrist pushups, designed to strengthen his hands for bare-knuckle combat.
   • The importance of balancing intense training with relaxation and personal fulfillment, as highlighted by Leduc’s prioritization of quality of life outside the ring.
6. Lethwei’s Future and Dave Leduc’s Vision
   • The growing popularity of Lethwei in Myanmar and its potential for international recognition and expansion, particularly in the United States.
   • Leduc’s role as an ambassador for the sport, using his platform to promote Lethwei and its unique ruleset.
   • The possibility of Leduc transitioning back to MMA, driven by a desire to avenge past losses and potentially compete for titles in a larger organization.
   • Leduc’s ultimate goal to continue fighting for several more years and then transition to other pursuits, emphasizing the importance of balancing a fighting career with a fulfilling life outside the ring.
7. The Cultural Significance of Lethwei
   • The historical roots of Lethwei and its connection to traditional Burmese warfare and culture.
   • The unique training methods and traditions associated with Lethwei, including the use of specific strikes and the emphasis on mental fortitude.
   • The role of Lethwei as a source of national pride in Myanmar, uniting people from different backgrounds through a shared passion for the sport.
   • The importance of preserving Lethwei’s traditional ruleset, despite the potential risks, as a symbol of cultural heritage and a testament to human resilience.
8. The Allure of Extreme Challenges
   • Leduc’s attraction to Lethwei’s brutality and his desire to test his limits and achieve greatness in one of the most challenging combat sports in the world.
   • The shared human desire for adventure and risk-taking, as exemplified by Leduc’s unconventional career path and his willingness to push his physical and mental boundaries.
   • The importance of finding fulfillment through challenging endeavors, rather than settling for a comfortable but uninspiring life.
   • The ongoing evolution of combat sports, with new disciplines like Lethwei emerging to cater to the growing desire for extreme challenges and unique rulesets.
9. The Importance of Personal Fulfillment
   • Leduc’s emphasis on finding happiness and fulfillment outside the ring, prioritizing his wife and family over material possessions or fleeting fame.
   • His commitment to a balanced lifestyle, incorporating travel, cultural experiences, and personal growth into his life.
   • The importance of finding your passion and pursuing it with unwavering dedication, regardless of potential risks or external pressures.
   • The idea that true fulfillment comes from living a life aligned with your values and pursuing your dreams, rather than chasing societal expectations or material wealth.
10. The Philosophical and Spiritual Implications of Life and Death
    • Leduc’s perspective on the inevitability of death and his desire to make the most of his time on earth, pursuing his passions and maximizing his quality of life.
    • The role of psychedelics in exploring consciousness and challenging traditional notions of reality, as discussed by Leduc and Rogan.
    • The ongoing debate surrounding the nature of consciousness and the possibility of an afterlife, with Leduc and Rogan expressing skepticism about definitive answers.
    • The importance of embracing uncertainty and living life to the fullest, regardless of potential unknowns or anxieties surrounding the afterlife.
11. The Dangers of Obsession and Addiction
    • Rogan’s personal struggles with video game addiction and his acknowledgment of the dangers of obsessive behavior, particularly in a high-pressure environment.
    • The importance of finding a balance between dedication and self-control, recognizing the potential for obsession to consume one’s life and negatively impact relationships and well-being.
    • The idea that success requires a level of obsession, but it’s crucial to set boundaries and manage one’s time effectively to avoid detrimental consequences.
    • The need for self-awareness and the ability to recognize when an obsession is becoming unhealthy and requires intervention or a shift in focus.
12. The Power of Cultural Exchange and Global Understanding
    • Leduc’s journey as a Canadian fighter embracing Lethwei, a sport deeply rooted in Myanmar, demonstrating the potential for cultural exchange and mutual appreciation.
    • The importance of promoting understanding and tolerance between cultures, particularly through shared passions like martial arts, which transcend language barriers and geographical boundaries.
    • The role of athletes like Leduc in fostering global connections and bridging cultural divides, promoting respect and appreciation for diverse traditions and practices.
    • The potential for Lethwei, as a globally recognized sport, to contribute to a broader understanding of Burmese culture and history.
13. The Role of Community and Support Systems
    • Leduc’s acknowledgment of the importance of his wife’s unwavering support and encouragement throughout his career, particularly during challenging periods.
    • The importance of surrounding yourself with a strong network of friends, family, and mentors who provide guidance, motivation, and emotional support.
    • The role of training partners and coaches in pushing athletes to their limits and helping them achieve their goals.
    • The idea that success in any endeavor requires a strong sense of community and a supportive network to navigate the inevitable challenges along the way.
14. The Evolving Landscape of Martial Arts
    • The growing popularity of unconventional martial arts like Lethwei, reflecting a shift towards more extreme challenges and unique rulesets.
    • The increasing globalization of combat sports, with fighters from different cultures and disciplines crossing over into new organizations and competitions.
    • The role of the internet and social media in promoting new martial arts and connecting athletes with fans worldwide.
    • The ongoing evolution of martial arts, driven by innovation, technological advancements, and the desire for greater challenges and entertainment.
15. The Power of Storytelling and Human Connection
    • Leduc’s ability to share his personal experiences and insights through his podcast, connecting with listeners on a deeper level and fostering a sense of shared humanity.
    • The power of storytelling in inspiring others, overcoming adversity, and building a sense of community.
    • The importance of sharing personal stories, even those involving challenges and vulnerabilities, to create connections and foster empathy.
    • The enduring power of human connection, regardless of cultural differences or backgrounds, forged through shared experiences, vulnerabilities, and passions.

5 Memorable Quotes:

1. “Nothing good comes out of comfort.”
2. “I don’t want to be just champion anywhere. I want to be champion in like the most brutal shit in the world.”
3. “I don’t believe in that stuff, but like I just disfigured him.” (referring to his first Lethwei fight)
4. “Life is short. We don’t know what’s gonna happen after. Let’s do what we love.”
5. “I think it’s important to be crazy to dedicate massive amounts of time to something.”