JRE #540 – Steven Rinella

8/26/2014

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This podcast features Steven Rinella, an outdoorsman, author, and television host, known for his show “MeatEater.” The conversation ranges across various topics related to hunting, wildlife, nature, and the challenges of balancing conservation with human needs.

Major Topics

Here are some of the major topics discussed in the podcast:

1. Hunting in Southeast Alaska: Rinella and Rogan discuss their upcoming hunting trip to Prince of Wales Island in Southeast Alaska. They touch upon the unique terrain, the possibility of exploring uncharted areas, and the potential challenges of unpredictable weather.
   1. The island’s vast and rugged landscape with limited access.
   2. The possibility of finding untouched wilderness and witnessing undisturbed wildlife.
   3. The unpredictable weather conditions, which can range from idyllic to harsh.
   4. The challenge of navigating the terrain and reaching remote hunting spots.
2. Old Growth Logging Controversy: Rinella expresses concern about a proposed 6,000-acre clear-cut in Tongass National Forest, highlighting the dwindling amount of old growth forest remaining.
   1. The economic argument for logging, providing jobs and economic activity in the region.
   2. The environmental argument against logging, emphasizing the unique ecological value of old-growth forests and their role in biodiversity.
   3. The complex and conflicting perspectives on forest management, with both sides having valid points.
   4. The potential impact of logging on wildlife populations, particularly those reliant on old-growth habitat.
3. Wolves in Southeast Alaska: The conversation touches on the debate about the genetic distinction of wolves in the Alexander Archipelago and their potential protection under the Endangered Species Act.
   1. The scientific debate on the genetic status of wolves in the region, with arguments for both distinct subspecies and genetic continuity with other wolf populations.
   2. The potential implications for wolf conservation and hunting regulations, depending on whether they are classified as a distinct subspecies or not.
   3. The tension between conservation efforts and the interests of hunters and trappers.
   4. The challenge of finding common ground and balancing conflicting interests in wildlife management.
4. Black-Tailed Deer Hunting: Rinella provides details about hunting black-tailed deer in Southeast Alaska, emphasizing the unique migratory patterns of these deer and their reliance on old-growth forests for wintering habitat.
   1. The seasonal migration patterns of black-tailed deer, moving between alpine areas and old-growth forests.
   2. The importance of old-growth forests for wintering habitat, providing shelter and food sources.
   3. The potential impact of logging on deer populations and their ability to find suitable wintering grounds.
   4. The complex interplay of different factors influencing deer populations, including habitat loss, predator pressure, and hunting regulations.
5. Bear Ecology and Behavior: Rogan and Rinella explore various aspects of bear ecology, including their dietary preferences, territoriality, and interactions with other species.
   1. The dominant role of salmon runs in the diet of bears, especially in Southeast Alaska.
   2. The territoriality of bears and their dominance over salmon streams, often excluding black bears from prime feeding areas.
   3. The surprising phenomenon of black bears and grizzly bears inhabiting different islands in Southeast Alaska, suggesting a degree of ecological segregation.
   4. The unique interactions between bears and wolves, including competition for food, predation of cubs, and scavenging on carcasses.
6. Bear Hunting: Rinella shares stories about hunting bears in Alberta and Alaska, highlighting the size and temperament of these animals, as well as the ethical considerations involved in hunting them.
   1. The ethical debate surrounding hunting large predators, particularly bears.
   2. The role of trophy hunting in managing bear populations and ensuring a healthy ecosystem.
   3. The unique challenges of hunting bears, including their size, strength, and unpredictability.
   4. The importance of respecting the animal and understanding its place in the ecosystem.
7. Dolphins and Orcas: The conversation briefly delves into the intelligence of dolphins and orcas, as well as their complex social behaviors.
   1. The remarkable intelligence of dolphins and orcas, evidenced by their complex communication and problem-solving abilities.
   2. The surprising fact that dolphins kill their own kind, particularly babies, to ensure breeding opportunities.
   3. The ethical implications of studying and interacting with these highly intelligent animals.
   4. The need to acknowledge the complexity of animal behavior and avoid oversimplification.
8. Zoos and Animal Welfare: Rinella expresses his concern about the welfare of animals in zoos, arguing for more natural enclosures and a shift away from the traditional cage-based displays.
   1. The ethical dilemma of keeping wild animals in captivity, particularly in artificial settings.
   2. The impact of captivity on animal behavior, potentially leading to psychological stress and compromised health.
   3. The need for zoos to prioritize the well-being of animals and provide them with enriching environments that mimic their natural habitats.
   4. The potential role of zoos in conservation efforts, particularly for endangered species.
9. The Importance of Wilderness: Rinella emphasizes the importance of preserving wilderness areas and allowing animals to live and behave naturally, without undue human interference.
   1. The value of wild places for both human and animal well-being, providing a sense of wonder and connection to nature.
   2. The importance of allowing animals to live freely and engage in their natural behaviors, including hunting and predation.
   3. The dangers of over-managing ecosystems and creating artificial environments that may not benefit all species.
   4. The need for a more holistic approach to conservation, recognizing the interconnectedness of all living things.
10. The Writing Process: Rinella discusses his writing process and his perspective on writing as a craft.
    1. The iterative and demanding nature of writing, involving multiple drafts and revisions.
    2. The challenge of finding inspiration and creating compelling narratives.
    3. The importance of clarity, precision, and engaging language in writing.
    4. The personal satisfaction of completing a writing project and the joy of sharing one’s work with others.
11. The Value of Outdoor Television: Rogan and Rinella touch upon the evolution of outdoor television and the emergence of shows that focus on genuine adventure, conservation, and storytelling.
    1. The shift in outdoor television towards authentic experiences and a deeper understanding of wildlife and wild places.
    2. The importance of storytelling and connecting with audiences on an emotional level.
    3. The role of outdoor television in inspiring viewers to appreciate and conserve nature.
    4. The challenge of balancing entertainment with education and promoting responsible outdoor practices.
12. Trichinosis: Rinella shares his personal experience with trichinosis, a parasitic infection contracted from eating undercooked bear meat. He discusses the dangers of the infection, the need for proper cooking, and the prevalence of trichinosis in bear meat.
    1. The dangers of trichinosis, a parasitic infection that can cause severe muscle pain, fever, and other health complications.
    2. The importance of cooking bear meat to a safe temperature to kill the parasites and prevent infection.
    3. The high prevalence of trichinosis in bear meat, particularly in areas with abundant bear populations.
    4. The need to be aware of the risks associated with eating wild game and to take precautions to ensure safety.
13. Lyme Disease: Rogan and Rinella discuss their experiences with Lyme disease, highlighting the challenges of diagnosis, treatment, and the ongoing debate about chronic Lyme disease.
    1. The difficulties in diagnosing Lyme disease, particularly in its early stages.
    2. The controversy surrounding chronic Lyme disease, with the medical establishment largely dismissing it while some patients experience ongoing symptoms.
    3. The impact of Lyme disease on individuals, affecting physical health, mental well-being, and daily life.
    4. The need for greater awareness and research into Lyme disease and its long-term effects.
14. Morel’s Disease: The conversation briefly touches on Morel’s disease, a rare and controversial skin condition that some doctors attribute to psychological factors while others believe it may be connected to Lyme disease.
    1. The mystery surrounding Morel’s disease, with conflicting views on its cause and severity.
    2. The potential link between Morel’s disease and Lyme disease, as suggested by some doctors.
    3. The challenges of diagnosing and treating rare skin conditions.
    4. The importance of acknowledging the complexity of medical conditions and seeking comprehensive care.
15. The Importance of Respect for Wildlife: Rinella expresses his deep respect for wildlife and argues that hunting should be conducted ethically and with a commitment to conservation.
    1. The need to recognize the inherent value of all living creatures and to treat them with respect.
    2. The importance of hunting ethically, minimizing suffering and maximizing the utilization of the animal.
    3. The role of hunters in conservation efforts, supporting sustainable management practices and contributing to wildlife populations.
    4. The need to strike a balance between human needs and the well-being of wildlife.
16. The Future of Hunting: Rinella reflects on the challenges and opportunities for hunting in the future, emphasizing the need for responsible practices, effective management, and a commitment to conservation.
    1. The evolving nature of hunting, influenced by changing social attitudes, conservation concerns, and technological advancements.
    2. The importance of ethical hunting and sustainable wildlife management.
    3. The role of education and communication in fostering respect for wildlife and promoting responsible hunting practices.
    4. The need to find common ground and build bridges between hunters, conservationists, and the general public to ensure the future of hunting and wildlife.
17. Psychedelic Experiences: Rogan shares his personal experiences with DMT and Ayahuasca, exploring the potential benefits and challenges of psychedelic use.
    1. The profound and transformative effects of DMT and Ayahuasca, triggering intense psychedelic experiences.
    2. The potential therapeutic benefits of psychedelics, including insights into consciousness, self-reflection, and spiritual exploration.
    3. The importance of responsible and safe psychedelic use, including appropriate setting, dosage, and mental preparation.
    4. The ongoing debate surrounding the legal status and potential applications of psychedelics in medicine and society.
18. The Nature of Consciousness: Rogan and Rinella touch upon the nature of consciousness and the potential role of DMT in near-death experiences and other altered states of awareness.
    1. The mystery surrounding consciousness and its origins.
    2. The potential link between DMT and near-death experiences, alien abduction experiences, and other altered states of awareness.
    3. The implications of psychedelic experiences for understanding the nature of reality and the human mind.
    4. The need for further research into the effects of psychedelics on consciousness and human experience.
19. The Role of Shamans and Spiritual Practices: The conversation touches on the role of shamans and spiritual practices in different cultures and the potential for personal growth and healing.
    1. The importance of recognizing the value of traditional spiritual practices and indigenous knowledge systems.
    2. The potential for shamanic practices and psychedelic experiences to facilitate healing and personal transformation.
    3. The need to approach spiritual practices with respect, caution, and a critical mindset.
    4. The importance of seeking out genuine and ethical spiritual guides and avoiding exploitative practices.
20. Social Justice and Racial Issues: Rogan and Rinella briefly discuss issues of social justice and race, particularly in relation to the role of figures like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in the Black community.
    1. The complex and challenging issues of race and social justice in the United States.
    2. The role of charismatic leaders in shaping public discourse and influencing social movements.
    3. The potential pitfalls of oversimplification and stereotyping when addressing complex social issues.
    4. The need for nuanced and informed discussions on race and social justice, focusing on solutions and building bridges.

Memorable Quotes

1. “I understand every single argument for and against [logging]. I understand every single argument. What’s for? What’s the good aspect of it? Economics. I mean, definitely. You used to have a thriving logging industry based around Congress. You know, Tongass National Forest.” – Rinella acknowledges the economic arguments for logging but emphasizes the environmental cost.
2. “I guarantee that no one, you know, can’t guarantee. But, I mean, like, for a 100 years, it’s probably no one has stepped foot on that thing because you really had we would have to get to one place and you’d have to get a boat and carry it through and go across to another place and then climb up. Well, it’d be mostly just climbing.” – Rinella describes the remote and challenging terrain of Prince of Wales Island, hinting at the possibility of unexplored wilderness.
3. “There’s a health there’s a good healthy population [of black-tailed deer]. You know? It’s still good. Even a nonresident, you’re allowed two bucks.” – Rinella reassures Rogan that the black-tailed deer population on the island is healthy and that hunting is well-managed.
4. “I’ve watched wolves there eating dead salmon that were the consistency of pudding. Woah. Just mopping it up. They must have unbelievable stellar factorial man, you you can’t imagine.” – Rinella describes the scavenging behavior of wolves and their remarkable ability to digest even rotten food.
5. “The only thing standing between us and restoring Buffalo to more of their native range is popular conception. Perception of, you know, probably the perception of the issue.” – Rinella expresses optimism about the potential for reintroducing buffalo to their native range, highlighting the need to change public perceptions.

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