JRE #738 – Molly Crabapple

This podcast features a conversation with Molly Crabapple, an artist and journalist, delving into her life experiences, creative process, and provocative views on various topics. Topics range from her intimate memoir “Drawing Blood” to the intricacies of journalism in war zones and her unique perspective on the human condition. Underlying themes explore the power of honesty and vulnerability, the complexities of social and political systems, and the enduring fascination with the human condition.

1. “Drawing Blood”: A Raw and Honest Memoir

• Crabapple reveals the grueling process of writing her memoir, spanning over two years and involving multiple drafts.
• She details the challenges of confronting her past, including difficult relationships and self-reflection, a process she describes as “fact-checking the ends of various friendships and relationships.”
• The book’s intimacy is emphasized, with Crabapple comparing it to “cutting the skin away and open your chest up” for the world to see.
• Crabapple emphasizes the importance of honesty in her work, stating, “I just wanted to do something honest.”

2. The Art of Storytelling and Cutting Away Excess

• Crabapple draws parallels between writing and stand-up comedy, emphasizing the importance of trimming away excess to improve the overall narrative.
• She shares the valuable advice she received from a journalist friend, “The worst articles I’ve ever written are the ones where I try to say everything about a subject?”
• Crabapple discusses the challenges of killing her darlings, both in writing and art, comparing the process to sculpting a block of marble.
• This theme underscores the importance of self-editing and focusing on the essence of a story rather than including every detail.

3. The Power and Perils of Social Isolation

• The podcast explores the idea of being alone, both physically and mentally, referencing a Norwegian adventurer’s experience in the wilderness and the lasting trauma of solitary confinement.
• Crabapple shares her experience reporting on long-term solitary prisoners, highlighting the severe mental trauma they endure.
• The discussion includes the case of Chelsea Manning, who spent three years in solitary confinement, and the psychological toll it took on her.
• This topic raises questions about the ethics of solitary confinement and the impact of isolation on human psychology.

4. The Role of Journalism in Exposing Crime and Holding Power Accountable

• The podcast examines the actions of individuals like Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, and Julian Assange, who have exposed government wrongdoing, sparking debate about the nature of patriotism and the limits of national security.
• Crabapple emphasizes the importance of holding governments accountable, arguing that “it’s treason to say, like, just because it’s my country, any crime is justified.”
• The discussion highlights the risks and consequences these individuals face for exposing truth, including legal persecution and social isolation.
• This theme underscores the crucial role of journalism in a democracy and the need for transparency and accountability in government.

5. The Disturbing Reality of War and Violence in the Middle East

• Crabapple shares her harrowing experiences reporting from Syria and Gaza, offering firsthand accounts of violence, destruction, and the human cost of conflict.
• She describes the apocalyptic landscape of Gaza, destroyed by Israeli military action, and encounters with people living in bombed-out buildings.
• The podcast addresses the ongoing Syrian refugee crisis, highlighting the challenges faced by individuals fleeing violence and the political complexities of international response.
• This section emphasizes the urgency of addressing humanitarian crises and the importance of understanding the human impact of conflict.

6. The Perils of Anonymous Online Harassment

• Crabapple discusses the prevalence of online harassment, particularly on platforms like Twitter, and the psychological impact it can have on individuals.
• She argues that while some online criticism is warranted, anonymous attacks often stem from a desire to inflict harm rather than engage in meaningful dialogue.
• The podcast explores the challenges of navigating online spaces where anonymity can facilitate bullying and hateful speech.
• This topic raises questions about the responsibility of online platforms to address harassment and the importance of fostering respectful discourse.

7. The Complexities of Human Behavior and the Spectrum of Morality

• Crabapple reflects on the dark side of human nature, citing examples of brutality and violence, particularly in regimes like Saddam Hussein’s Iraq and the atrocities committed by ISIS.
• She contrasts these acts with examples of human kindness and compassion, highlighting the work of individuals like Justin Ren, who dedicate their lives to helping others.
• The discussion touches on the role of environment and upbringing in shaping individual behavior, emphasizing the malleability of human nature.
• This theme raises existential questions about good and evil, and the factors that contribute to both constructive and destructive actions in human society.

8. The Rise of Social Shaming and Its Impact on Discourse

• Crabapple discusses the phenomenon of public shaming, particularly in the context of social media, and its potential to silence dissenting voices and stifle open dialogue.
• She highlights the dangers of applying the same standards of judgment to online interactions as to real-life encounters, arguing that the anonymous nature of the internet can escalate conflict.
• The podcast explores the tension between holding individuals accountable for their actions and creating a space for constructive criticism and personal growth.
• This section examines the evolving dynamics of social interactions in the digital age and the challenges of navigating online communities.

9. The Inevitable Erosion of Privacy in the Digital Age

• Crabapple predicts that the boundaries between public and private life will continue to blur as technology advances, leading to an era where everyone possesses the ability to spy on each other.
• She suggests that this erosion of privacy will have profound implications for human relationships, potentially impacting intimacy, trust, and the way we interact with each other.
• The podcast explores the potential for both positive and negative outcomes, acknowledging that while transparency can be beneficial, it can also lead to increased vulnerability and fear.
• This theme encourages reflection on the ethical implications of emerging technologies and the need for responsible use of digital tools.

10. The Power of the Internet and its Impact on Social Change

• Crabapple discusses the transformative power of the internet, particularly in the context of social movements and the dissemination of information.
• She highlights the use of the internet by activists and journalists to expose wrongdoing and challenge oppressive regimes, particularly in the Middle East.
• The podcast explores the double-edged sword of online communication, acknowledging its potential for empowerment while also recognizing its vulnerability to censorship and manipulation.
• This theme underscores the evolving role of the internet in shaping global discourse and its potential to both promote and hinder social change.

11. The Allure and Danger of Belief Systems

• Crabapple delves into the concept of belief systems, exploring the allure of belonging to a group with shared values and purpose while also cautioning against the dangers of blind faith and the suppression of individual thought.
• She references her own experience within Scientology, highlighting the seductive nature of the organization’s promises and the power of indoctrination.
• The discussion examines the psychological mechanisms involved in both joining and leaving belief systems, emphasizing the strength and resilience required to break free from deeply ingrained ideologies.
• This theme prompts reflection on the importance of critical thinking, personal autonomy, and the challenge of navigating complex belief systems.

12. The Enigmatic Nature of Dictators and the Perils of Power

• Crabapple discusses the personality and tactics of Vladimir Putin, highlighting his past as head of the KGB and his ongoing grip on power in Russia.
• She explores the tendency for children of dictators to perpetuate their fathers’ brutality, referencing the examples of Saddam Hussein’s sons and Kim Jong-il.
• The podcast delves into the psychological factors that contribute to authoritarianism, exploring the potential for both immense ambition and profound cruelty within individuals who hold power.
• This theme raises concerns about the dangers of unchecked power and the need for robust democratic institutions to prevent abuses.

13. The Complexities of International Relations and the Hypocrisy of Power

• Crabapple examines the United States’ relationship with Saudi Arabia, highlighting the hypocrisy of condemning human rights abuses in other countries while maintaining close ties with a regime known for its repressive policies.
• She critiques the selective application of international sanctions and the double standards often employed by powerful nations.
• The podcast highlights the complexities of global politics and the challenges of navigating conflicting values and interests.
• This section encourages reflection on the importance of ethical foreign policy and the need for consistent application of human rights principles.

14. The Importance of Artistic Expression and its Impact on Society

• Crabapple emphasizes the importance of artistic expression as a means of self-discovery, social commentary, and challenging established norms.
• She discusses the role of art in confronting difficult realities, particularly in the context of war and social injustice.
• The podcast highlights the transformative power of art to inspire, provoke, and spark dialogue.
• This theme underscores the value of creativity and the role of artists in shaping cultural discourse and fostering critical thinking.

15. The Beauty and Strangeness of the Natural World

• Crabapple expresses her fascination with the natural world, particularly marine life, highlighting the intelligence and adaptability of creatures like octopus and dolphins.
• She argues that our understanding of intelligence is often limited by our own human-centric perspective, failing to recognize the diverse forms of intelligence present in the natural world.
• The podcast explores the potential for unexpected forms of life and intelligence to exist on Earth and beyond.
• This theme encourages a sense of wonder and awe at the vastness and complexity of the natural world, urging us to expand our understanding of intelligence and respect the diverse forms of life on Earth.

16. The Power of Personal Growth and the Importance of Rest and Reflection

• Crabapple acknowledges the importance of taking time for rest and reflection, recognizing that a relentless pace of activity can lead to burnout and a diminished capacity for creativity.
• She emphasizes the value of creating space for introspection and allowing oneself to be bored, as this can lead to new insights and perspectives.
• The podcast highlights the cyclical nature of creative work, acknowledging that periods of rest and reflection are necessary for renewal and growth.
• This theme encourages individuals to prioritize their well-being, embrace periods of downtime, and allow for the emergence of new ideas and directions in their lives.

17. The Unforeseen Consequences of Technological Advancements

• Crabapple discusses the potential for CRISPR technology to dramatically alter human genetics, raising concerns about the ethical implications of manipulating life at its most fundamental level.
• She speculates on the future impact of such advancements, suggesting that our current understanding of what constitutes human nature may become obsolete as technology allows for greater control over our bodies and biology.
• The podcast explores the need for careful consideration and public discourse about the ethical boundaries of scientific innovation.
• This theme prompts reflection on the responsibilities that accompany technological progress and the need for ethical frameworks to guide the development and application of new technologies.

18. The Ongoing Evolution of Human Society and the Uncertainty of the Future

• Crabapple highlights the ongoing evolution of human society, referencing the development of the internet and its impact on communication, knowledge sharing, and the dynamics of social interaction.
• She emphasizes the rapid pace of change and the challenges of adapting to a world where technology is constantly reshaping our reality.
• The podcast acknowledges the uncertainty of the future, suggesting that human society is in a constant state of flux and that our current understanding of the world may not be applicable in the years to come.
• This theme encourages a sense of openness and adaptability, acknowledging that the future is not predetermined and that we have a responsibility to shape the world we want to live in.

19. The Importance of Engaging in Difficult Conversations

• Crabapple emphasizes the importance of engaging in difficult conversations, even when they involve challenging or uncomfortable topics.
• She encourages listeners to actively participate in public discourse, challenge assumptions, and seek out different perspectives.
• The podcast highlights the power of dialogue to foster understanding, promote critical thinking, and challenge societal norms.
• This theme emphasizes the importance of active citizenship and the need for individuals to engage with complex issues and contribute to meaningful conversations.

20. The Power of Storytelling and its Role in Shaping Human Understanding

• Crabapple underscores the importance of storytelling in shaping human understanding, both in literature and in journalism.
• She highlights the power of stories to connect with audiences, evoke emotions, and provide insights into the human experience.
• The podcast emphasizes the role of storytelling in creating empathy, fostering understanding, and challenging perspectives.
• This theme celebrates the enduring power of narrative to illuminate the complexities of the human condition and inspire change.

5 Memorable Quotes:

• “That is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life.” – Crabapple describes the intense effort involved in writing “Drawing Blood,” highlighting the personal and emotional toll it took on her.
• “Everybody does. You know? Everybody I mean, it’s it’s it’s really strange when you go back and talk to people that you haven’t talked to for a long time. And you’re like, okay. What is your and, you know, all judgments aside, let’s just give me your version of what happened, and I’ll tell you what I think happened. and then, like, oh my god. I don’t know what the fuck the truth is anymore.” – Crabapple captures the subjectivity of memory and the difficulty of reconstructing the past, emphasizing the importance of empathy and understanding when engaging with differing perspectives.
• “You suffer real mental trauma from doing that. And, like, no one even, like, the smartest, toughest, best person who has, like, a really loving mom that is really devoted to giving them, you know, all the books and all the support, even that person will suffer like real real trauma from that.” – Crabapple highlights the devastating impact of solitary confinement, emphasizing the need for humane treatment of prisoners and the importance of addressing the mental health needs of those who have been subjected to severe isolation.
• “I think it’s treason to say, like, just because it’s my country, any crime is justified.” – Crabapple passionately defends the importance of holding governments accountable, asserting that patriotism requires challenging wrongdoing, even when it involves one’s own nation.
• “The world is so uneven. that there are places like the Congo that are, like, that exist on the same timeline as Park Avenue. that there’s there’s people that have doorman that dress up like the guys that were holding open the door for Putin. You know, he’s hop into Uber limousines and you travel around the city, you know, with the the right fragrances in the in the car. And it’s it’s we live in really strange times.” – Crabapple poignantly describes the vast disparity of wealth and privilege, highlighting the stark differences between those who enjoy luxury and those who struggle to survive, emphasizing the importance of addressing global inequality and promoting social justice.