JRE #824 – Bryan Callen

by

7/21/2016




This podcast features Joe Rogan in conversation with stand-up comedian and actor Bryan Callen, known for co-hosting “The Fighter & The Kid” podcast with Brendan Schaub. The discussion spans a wide range of topics, including wine culture, the absurdity of pretentiousness, the nature of power and influence, the complexities of mental health, the dangers of radical ideologies, and the importance of open societies for innovation and progress.

Wine Culture and Pretentiousness


Callen and Rogan discuss the pretentiousness of wine culture, with Rogan sharing his humorous experiences with wine tastings and Callen recounting his encounter with a man bringing his own expensive wine to a fine Italian restaurant. This topic explores the absurdity of pretentiousness in seemingly sophisticated settings, suggesting that true enjoyment can be found in simpler things.

  1. Rogan describes a wine tasting experience where he jokingly described the wine as tasting like “biting into a wet dog.” He highlights the absurdity of pretentious language used in wine descriptions.
  2. Callen shares his encounter with a man carrying a briefcase with two bottles of wine to a fine Italian restaurant, finding the act pretentious and unnecessary. He questions the need to bring your own wine to an establishment that specializes in it.
  3. They discuss the high cost of rare wines and the exclusivity associated with being a wine connoisseur, with Rogan referencing the “Tony Hawk of wine critics,” Robert Parker.
  4. Both Rogan and Callen agree that the pretentiousness of wine culture often overshadows the enjoyment of the wine itself.

Power and Influence


Rogan and Callen delve into a discussion on the nature of power, contrasting the “power that inspires” with the “power that controls.” Rogan uses the example of his own podcast, arguing that his influence stems from sharing diverse perspectives and fostering critical thinking. In contrast, they discuss Russia’s model of power, characterized by dominance and control, and how this can be seen in the support for strongmen like Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump.

  1. Rogan emphasizes the positive use of power that inspires, citing his podcast as an example of using influence to share diverse perspectives and encourage critical thinking.
  2. They discuss the Russian model of power, which Rogan characterizes as “power that controls,” emphasizing dominance and a lack of respect for dissenting voices.
  3. Callen draws a comparison between Putin and Trump, suggesting that their appeal lies in their perceived strength and dominance.
  4. Rogan expresses concerns about the vulnerability of democratic systems to “fuckery,” highlighting the potential for a “madman” to seize control.

Mental Health and Societal Problems


The conversation touches on the importance of mental health, inequality, and the need for creating safe havens for “gentler spirits” and unconventional thinkers. Rogan argues that a healthy society should foster a marketplace of ideas, embracing diversity of thought and expression. This is contrasted with restrictive environments, like those found in Russia or Saudi Arabia, where control and conformity are prioritized over individual freedom.

  1. Rogan emphasizes the importance of mental health as a critical factor in combating societal problems like violence and radicalism.
  2. Callen highlights the role of inequality in creating disadvantageous environments, especially for those born into poverty or in areas of conflict.
  3. Rogan argues for the importance of creating safe havens for those who think differently and express themselves unconventionally, citing examples like Prince, Little Richard, and Marilyn Manson.
  4. Both Rogan and Callen highlight the dangers of restrictive societies, emphasizing the importance of a free exchange of ideas for innovation and progress.

The Nature of Innovation


The podcast explores the connection between open societies and innovation, arguing that the free exchange of ideas is crucial for progress. Rogan uses the example of mixed martial arts, where the UFC’s open format allowed fighters to share techniques and push the boundaries of the sport. He also discusses the importance of embracing the scientific method, questioning superstition and advocating for a reality-based approach to understanding the world.

  1. Rogan uses the UFC as an example of how an open format allows for the exchange of ideas and accelerated innovation, comparing it to societies that restrict the flow of information.
  2. He emphasizes the importance of the scientific method as a cornerstone of a thriving society, advocating for a reality-based approach over superstition and ideology.
  3. Both Rogan and Callen acknowledge the danger of restrictive societies, arguing that they stifle innovation by limiting the expression of ideas and discouraging risk-taking.
  4. Rogan points out that societies that are tolerant and open to diverse perspectives, even those they disagree with, tend to be stronger and more innovative.

The Dangers of Radical Ideologies


Rogan and Callen discuss the dangers of radical ideologies, particularly focusing on ISIS and the consequences of their violent actions. Rogan shares insights from a friend who is a former Delta Force operator, highlighting the challenges of combating ISIS due to their decentralized structure and ability to recruit vulnerable individuals. They also discuss the impact of radical ideologies on individuals and the difficulty of preventing acts of violence motivated by extremism.

  1. Rogan and Callen discuss the challenges of combating ISIS, emphasizing the group’s decentralized structure and their ability to recruit individuals through propaganda and coercion.
  2. They express concerns about the impact of radical ideologies on individuals, highlighting the ability of extremist groups to influence vulnerable individuals and motivate them to commit acts of violence.
  3. Rogan shares insights from a friend in the CIA who argues that simply bombing ISIS strongholds would only create martyrs and further radicalize individuals.
  4. Callen suggests that the violence perpetrated by groups like ISIS can lead to a loss of tolerance in society, potentially sparking a backlash and escalating conflict.

The Role of Censorship and Free Speech


The discussion turns to the topic of free speech and censorship, with Rogan and Callen debating the role of Twitter in regulating content and the potential for censorship to stifle dissenting voices. They discuss the case of Milo Yiannopoulos, who was banned from Twitter for his provocative comments about the film “Ghostbusters.” Rogan argues that while harassment is unacceptable, censorship is a dangerous slippery slope that can lead to the suppression of ideas that people may disagree with. He emphasizes the importance of a robust debate and the right to engage in critical discourse, even when it involves offensive or controversial perspectives.

  1. Rogan and Callen discuss the case of Milo Yiannopoulos, who was banned from Twitter for his provocative comments about the film “Ghostbusters,” highlighting the potential for censorship to stifle dissenting voices.
  2. Rogan expresses concerns about Twitter’s “Trust and Safety Council,” arguing that it creates a dangerous precedent for censorship and allows a select group to dictate what is considered acceptable speech.
  3. They argue that while harassment should be addressed, silencing controversial or offensive viewpoints through censorship is a dangerous slippery slope that undermines the principle of free speech.
  4. Rogan advocates for a robust debate and the ability to engage in critical discourse, even when it involves perspectives that people may find offensive.

Stereotypes and Cultural Residue


The podcast touches on the nature of stereotypes and the role of cultural residue in shaping our perceptions. Callen points out that stereotypes can be rooted in historical experiences and societal pressures, and that judging individuals based on these stereotypes can be harmful. He uses examples of Jewish people being perceived as cheap, Chinese people being viewed as bad drivers, and the historical context that shaped these stereotypes. Rogan agrees that while stereotypes can be dangerous, they are often based on pattern recognition and our need to make quick judgments in a complex world.

  1. Rogan and Callen discuss the nature of stereotypes, acknowledging their prevalence but emphasizing the dangers of judging individuals based on these generalizations.
  2. Callen argues that stereotypes can stem from historical experiences and societal pressures, using examples of Jewish people being perceived as cheap and Chinese people as bad drivers.
  3. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the historical context that shaped these stereotypes and acknowledging that they are not inherent traits but rather cultural residue.
  4. Rogan acknowledges that stereotypes can be rooted in our need for pattern recognition and quick judgments, but stresses that they should not be used to categorize or judge individuals.

The Nature of Violence and War


The discussion delves into the history of violence and war, exploring the cyclical nature of conflict and its impact on societies. Rogan and Callen discuss the devastating consequences of wars like World War II and the rise of extremist ideologies like those espoused by ISIS. They highlight the potential for “charismatic leaders” to exploit the desire for belonging and belonging to a group, leading to destructive outcomes. They also touch on the importance of understanding the historical context of violence and recognizing the complex motivations behind it.

  1. Rogan and Callen discuss the devastating consequences of war, particularly referencing World War II and the millions of lives lost.
  2. They emphasize the cyclical nature of conflict, pointing out how historical events and societal pressures often contribute to the rise of extremism and violence.
  3. Rogan highlights the danger of “charismatic leaders” who exploit the desire for belonging and community, leading to dangerous outcomes.
  4. Callen emphasizes the importance of understanding the historical context of violence and recognizing the complex motivations behind it, discouraging simplistic judgments and blaming.

The Importance of Self-Government and Open Societies


The podcast ends by examining the unique nature of the United States as an experiment in self-government and its impact on innovation and artistic expression. Rogan argues that the country’s commitment to individual freedom, open debate, and the rule of law has fostered a thriving environment for creativity and progress. He contrasts this with countries like those in the Middle East, which have struggled with instability and conflict due to restrictive ideologies and a lack of self-governance.

  1. Rogan and Callen discuss the unique nature of the United States as an experiment in self-government and its impact on innovation and artistic expression.
  2. Rogan argues that the country’s commitment to individual freedom, open debate, and the rule of law has fostered a thriving environment for creativity and progress.
  3. He contrasts this with countries in the Middle East, which have struggled with instability and conflict due to restrictive ideologies and a lack of self-governance.
  4. They acknowledge the challenges facing the United States, but emphasize the potential for its unique system of government to foster a more just and prosperous society.

Memorable Quotes:

  1. “You cannot send a $1000 bottle of wine…you fly that line.” – Callen highlights the absurdity of carrying an expensive bottle of wine in a suitcase, questioning the need for such extravagance.
  2. “We should all put ourselves in his shoes…I’m gonna gas the fuck out of them if I can invent a technique.” – Rogan acknowledges the complexities of human nature and the potential for even good intentions to lead to terrible outcomes.
  3. “The Romans would create a wasteland and call it peace.” – Rogan uses this quote from Genghis Khan to highlight the hypocrisy of empires that often justify violence for the sake of order.
  4. “It’s not about superstition…let’s base reality on what you can measure and what you can see.” – Rogan emphasizes the importance of the scientific method as a foundation for a thriving society, encouraging critical thinking and a reality-based approach.
  5. “The echoes of savages…you gotta get out of the fucking town man.” – Rogan suggests that the Middle East’s history of violence and conflict has contributed to its ongoing instability and challenges, urging for a change in mindset and a move towards a more peaceful future.


 

Leave a Comment