JRE #825 – Jeremy Stephens

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience features MMA fighter Jeremy Stephens, diving into the world of combat sports, performance enhancement, and the mental and physical demands of fighting.

Topics and Themes

Here’s a breakdown of the major topics discussed and the underlying themes explored:

1. The Prevalence of Steroids in MMA

• The UFC’s USADA (US Anti-Doping Agency) program is highlighted as a significant step in combating steroid use in the sport.
• Stephens expresses his admiration for natural athletes and his belief that steroid use is a sign that fighters should retire.
• The podcast discusses the alarming methods used for steroid administration, including blood transfusions and EPO (erythropoietin) usage, showcasing the lengths fighters will go to gain an edge.
• The discussion delves into the impact of steroids on physique, fighting style, and the difficulty of discerning legitimate natural ability from performance enhancement.

2. The Importance of Efficient Movement and Posture

• Stephens emphasizes the importance of efficient movement and good posture, highlighting fighters like Mighty Mouse (DJ) and Anderson Silva as prime examples.
• He introduces Nadi Aguilar, a movement coach who helps him integrate his body and minimize wasted motion, resulting in increased power and efficiency.
• The discussion explores the potential benefits of working with movement coaches, despite some skepticism within the MMA community.
• Underlying themes revolve around the body as a tool, the benefits of proper biomechanics, and the potential to enhance performance beyond just strength and conditioning.

3. The Risks of Sparring After Weightlifting

• Stephens argues against the practice of sparring immediately after intense weightlifting sessions, citing the potential for injury due to muscle fatigue and compromised mobility.
• He emphasizes the importance of proper rest and recovery after strenuous activity, advocating for light drilling or rest days before sparring.
• The discussion highlights the need for fighters to prioritize their long-term health and minimize the risks of injury that can derail their careers.
• An underlying theme underscores the importance of understanding the physical demands of the sport and making smart training choices for longevity.

4. The Impact of Point Karate on MMA

• Stephens believes that point karate, with its emphasis on explosive movement and quick strikes, will become a significant influence on future MMA fighters.
• He cites Michael Page as a prime example of a point karate practitioner who is translating those skills into success in MMA.
• The podcast discusses the unique range and speed of point karate fighters, contrasting with the more traditional boxing and Muay Thai stances.
• The discussion highlights the evolving nature of MMA and the emergence of new styles and techniques that could redefine the sport.

5. The Challenges of a Fighter’s Union

• The podcast explores the challenges of forming a fighter’s union, particularly in MMA, where the sport is characterized by individualistic competition rather than team-based structures.
• The discussion contrasts the UFC’s position as both employer and promoter with the traditional team dynamics of sports like baseball or football, making unionization more complex.
• Stephens highlights the need for a unified voice among fighters to negotiate fairer pay and working conditions, particularly for those who aren’t championship contenders.
• The underlying theme emphasizes the inherent power imbalance between fighters and the UFC, highlighting the need for greater solidarity and advocacy to address issues of compensation and worker rights.

6. The Mental Toughness of Endurance Athletes

• Stephens delves into the mental fortitude required for long-distance running and ultra-marathons, highlighting the need to push past physical and mental barriers.
• He discusses the unique mindset of endurance athletes who embrace discomfort and find mental breakthroughs through sustained effort.
• The podcast explores the connection between enduring pain and developing a mental edge, showcasing the mental toughness that can translate to other aspects of life.
• The discussion touches upon the potential dangers of pushing oneself to extremes, highlighting the importance of balance between pushing boundaries and protecting one’s health.

7. The Controversy Surrounding Brock Lesnar’s Steroid Use

• The podcast examines the controversy surrounding Brock Lesnar’s failed drug test, specifically his alleged use of estrogen blockers, which are often used to restart testosterone production after steroid cycles.
• Stephens expresses his belief that Lesnar’s failed test was likely a result of his steroid use, emphasizing the difficulty of masking steroid use with sophisticated testing methods.
• The discussion delves into the complexities of steroid use and the ethical considerations for athletes who choose to enhance their performance with banned substances.
• The conversation highlights the ongoing debate surrounding performance enhancement in sports and the need for a clear and consistent approach to drug testing and enforcement.

8. The Risks of Performance Enhancement and Long-Term Health

• The podcast discusses the long-term health risks associated with steroid use, including depression, endocrine system imbalances, and potential head injuries from sustained impact.
• Stephens highlights the dangers of self-medication and the tendency for fighters to use alcohol, drugs, and prescription medications to cope with the physical and mental toll of the sport.
• The conversation emphasizes the importance of addressing the underlying causes of these issues, including the impact of head trauma and the pressure to perform at a high level.
• An underlying theme underscores the need for a more holistic approach to athlete health and well-being, focusing on both physical and mental well-being.

9. The Unseen Demands of Professional Wrestling

• The podcast explores the physical and mental demands of professional wrestling, highlighting the intense training, high-impact moves, and the constant travel involved.
• Stephens acknowledges the dangers of the sport, including the risks of head trauma and the potential for long-term health issues.
• The discussion emphasizes the commitment and dedication required for a successful wrestling career, recognizing the sacrifices made by wrestlers who choose this demanding profession.
• The conversation highlights the often-overlooked sacrifices and risks of professional wrestling, emphasizing the need for greater understanding and appreciation for the sport and its athletes.

10. The Evolution of the Leg Lock Game in Jiu-Jitsu

• The podcast discusses the evolution of leg locks in jiu-jitsu, highlighting the increased prevalence and effectiveness of these techniques in modern competition.
• Stephens acknowledges the skill and knowledge required to effectively utilize leg locks, emphasizing the strategic advantages they offer in grappling scenarios.
• The discussion highlights the ongoing adaptation and evolution of jiu-jitsu techniques, showcasing the dynamic and ever-changing nature of the sport.
• An underlying theme emphasizes the importance of continuous learning and refinement of techniques to stay competitive in a rapidly evolving sport.

11. The Controversial “Knees on the Ground” Rule in MMA

• The podcast explores the ongoing debate surrounding the “knees on the ground” rule in MMA, which prohibits knee strikes to the head of a downed opponent.
• Stephens expresses his belief that the rule is fair, but acknowledges the potential for exploitation and the possibility of fighters using it to avoid legitimate strikes.
• The discussion delves into the complexities of rule-making in MMA, balancing safety concerns with the desire for exciting and dynamic competition.
• The conversation highlights the need for a careful assessment of the rule’s impact and potential for revision to ensure fairness and safety for fighters.

12. The Future of MMA and the Role of Point Karate

• Stephens believes that point karate fighters, with their unique skill set, have the potential to become more prominent in MMA, particularly in the featherweight division.
• He predicts that fighters like Michael Page, Raymond Daniels, and Justin Lawrence will continue to make waves in the sport.
• The discussion highlights the importance of versatility and adaptability in MMA, recognizing the value of integrating different martial arts styles for success.
• The conversation underscores the ongoing evolution of MMA and the emergence of new styles and athletes that could redefine the sport.

13. The Importance of Mental Health and Mindset in MMA

• Stephens emphasizes the importance of maintaining a healthy mental state, particularly during training and weight cuts, acknowledging the challenges of dealing with stress and personal issues.
• He suggests that fighters should prioritize their mental well-being and seek support when needed, acknowledging the impact of mental health on performance and overall well-being.
• The discussion highlights the complexities of being a professional fighter, balancing the demands of competition with the need for a stable personal life.
• The conversation emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach to athletic performance, recognizing the interconnectedness of physical and mental health.

14. The Role of God and Spirituality in Life

• Stephens expresses his openness to the possibility of a higher power or a guiding force in the universe, but rejects the notion of a traditional, anthropomorphic God.
• He finds beauty and awe in the vastness of space and the mysteries of the universe, suggesting that our understanding of the universe is still limited.
• The discussion explores the complex relationship between religion, spirituality, and personal belief, recognizing the diversity of perspectives on the nature of existence.
• The conversation emphasizes the importance of embracing wonder and curiosity in the face of the unknown, encouraging open-mindedness and a willingness to explore different perspectives.

15. The Importance of Community and Love

• Stephens emphasizes the importance of love and connection, highlighting the positive impact of strong relationships on personal well-being and overall happiness.
• He discusses the role of community in providing support and fostering a sense of belonging, particularly for fighters who often travel and train away from home.
• The discussion touches upon the importance of family, friendship, and the love for the sport itself in motivating fighters to push themselves beyond their limits.
• The conversation highlights the human need for connection and the positive impact of love and support in navigating the challenges of life, particularly in the demanding world of combat sports.

16. The Importance of Nutrition and Recovery

• Stephens emphasizes the importance of proper nutrition and recovery for fighters, highlighting the role of a balanced diet and a well-structured training program.
• He discusses his work with nutritionist George Lockhart and the use of a computerized program that helps him manage his caloric intake and optimize his body composition.
• The discussion delves into the importance of low-intensity cardio, sprint training, and the role of hydration in supporting athletic performance.
• The conversation highlights the importance of a holistic approach to training and recovery, recognizing the interconnectedness of diet, training, and mental well-being.

17. The Role of Mindset and Mental Toughness in Weight Cuts

• Stephens discusses the psychological aspects of weight cutting, highlighting the mental fortitude required to endure the physical and mental challenges.
• He emphasizes the importance of preparation, gradual weight loss, and a strong support system to make the weight cut process more manageable.
• The podcast explores the mental and emotional toll of weight cutting, acknowledging the need for fighters to develop a resilient mindset.
• The conversation highlights the importance of finding a balance between pushing oneself and listening to one’s body, recognizing the potential dangers of extreme weight cuts.

18. The Importance of Rehab and Recovery

• Stephens emphasizes the importance of regular rehab and recovery, highlighting the need to address injuries and prevent long-term health issues.
• He discusses his use of foam rolling, lacrosse balls, and other self-massage techniques to manage muscle soreness and promote recovery.
• The discussion delves into the importance of a proactive approach to health and well-being, recognizing that athletes need to invest in their bodies for longevity.
• The conversation highlights the importance of listening to one’s body and addressing problems early on, emphasizing the need for a holistic approach to health and recovery.

19. The Role of Cryotherapy, Float Tanks, and Probiotics in Recovery

• Stephens discusses his use of cryotherapy, float tanks, and probiotics as tools for recovery and promoting overall well-being.
• He highlights the benefits of these techniques for reducing inflammation, improving sleep, and boosting the immune system.
• The discussion explores the various methods and strategies athletes use to enhance recovery and maximize their athletic potential.
• The conversation emphasizes the importance of finding what works best for individual athletes and incorporating a variety of recovery strategies into their routine.

20. The Importance of Finding Your Passion and Purpose

• Stephens discusses his passion for MMA and the journey that led him to a successful career in the sport.
• He highlights the importance of finding your passion and pursuing your goals with unwavering dedication.
• The discussion explores the rewards and challenges of a professional fighting career, emphasizing the importance of staying true to yourself and pursuing your dreams.
• The conversation underscores the importance of finding meaning and purpose in life, whether it’s through sports, art, or other pursuits that ignite your passion.

Memorable Quotes

• “I’ve always took him pride in being a natural man. And if I feel like you need to start pumping steroids, maybe it’s time for you to get out.” – Stephens expresses his strong stance against steroid use in MMA.
• “Technique and training and heart encourage in cardio.” – Stephens emphasizes the importance of these key factors for success in MMA.
• “It’s a weird gig, like, to do that for a living, what do you do? I teach functional movement. What does that mean? I just you know, I show people how to move. I know how to move. What are you talking about?” – Rogan humorously highlights the absurdity of some movement coaches.
• “I’ve been on the road for you. That’s a lot of trial on this.” – Stephens acknowledges the grueling travel schedule required for a professional fighting career.
• “Those guys are on the road sometimes 260 plus days a year, and they are throwing each other through fucking doors and smashing each over in the head and fucking all the stunts that they have to do.” – Rogan acknowledges the immense physical demands of professional wrestling.