JRE #873 – Steven Kotler

11/16/2016

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience delves into the intriguing world of flow states, creativity, and altered states of consciousness with renowned author and flow expert, Steven Kotler. The conversation explores the science behind flow, how to cultivate it, and its impact on human performance, creativity, and even recovery from trauma. Provocative topics include the controversial nature of flow research, the potential for abuse in commercializing altered states, and the role of psychedelics in unlocking human potential.

Key Topics and Deep Themes

Here are some of the major topics discussed, along with a deeper exploration of their underlying themes:

1. Flow States: The Science of Optimal Performance

• Flow Defined: Flow is an optimal state of consciousness characterized by deep focus, effortless effort, and a sense of timelessness. It is often associated with peak performance in various domains, including sports, art, and problem-solving.
• Neurobiology of Flow: The podcast dives into the neurological underpinnings of flow, highlighting the role of the prefrontal cortex, dopamine, norepinephrine, and endorphins. When in flow, the prefrontal cortex, responsible for self-awareness and conscious thought, quiets down, allowing for a more intuitive and effortless experience.
• Triggering Flow: The conversation explores various flow triggers, including physical challenges, risk, novelty, complexity, and deep embodiment. Engaging in activities that slightly exceed one’s current skill level is crucial for stimulating flow.
• Applications of Flow: The podcast discusses the application of flow in diverse areas, from improving athletic performance and enhancing creativity to aiding in trauma recovery and boosting productivity in corporate environments.

2. Cultivating Creativity: Beyond the Moment

• Long Haul Creativity: Kotler distinguishes between short-term bursts of creativity and sustained creative output over a long career. He argues that understanding the roadblocks and derailments that creatives face over time is crucial for fostering lasting creative success.
• The Show Up Mentality: The podcast highlights the importance of consistency and discipline in creative pursuits, referencing the philosophies of Stephen King and Steven Pressfield, who emphasize the need to show up and work, regardless of inspiration. Kotler emphasizes the role of habit and routine in establishing a consistent creative practice.
• Exercise and Flow: The conversation explores the link between exercise, flow, and creativity. Exercise-induced transient hypofrontality, a state of temporary prefrontal cortex deactivation, can create a space for creative breakthroughs and mental clarity. This provides a practical strategy for creatives to enhance their work.
• The Role of Music: The podcast explores the impact of music on flow and creativity, highlighting how certain songs can act as catalysts, triggering emotional responses and inspiring creative ideas. The power of music to create a specific mood or tap into a particular emotional state is recognized as a powerful tool for creatives.

3. Psychedelics and Altered States of Consciousness: A Revolution in Human Potential

• The Science of Altered States: The conversation delves into the neurobiology of various altered states of consciousness, including flow, psychedelic experiences, and contemplative practices. The podcast explores the shared neurological mechanisms, particularly the deactivation of the prefrontal cortex and the release of specific neurochemicals, suggesting a common underlying experience.
• Unlocking Human Potential: The podcast explores the potential of altered states to enhance human potential in areas like trauma recovery, creativity, and personal growth. Research on the therapeutic uses of MDMA for PTSD, the use of psilocybin for depression and addiction, and the benefits of ibogain for opioid addiction are discussed.
• The Commercialization and Militarization of Altered States: The conversation examines the potential dangers of commercializing altered states, particularly the potential for exploitation and the creation of addiction. The discussion also highlights the potential misuse of these technologies in military applications, raising ethical concerns about the control and manipulation of human consciousness.
• The Future of Altered States: The podcast speculates on the future of altered states, suggesting that technological advancements, such as neural feedback and transcranial magnetic stimulation, may eventually allow for the targeted manipulation of brain states, potentially offering new therapeutic interventions and enhanced human capabilities.

4. The Intersection of Biology, Consciousness, and Culture: Redefining Humanity

• The Microbiome and Consciousness: The podcast explores the emerging understanding of the microbiome’s impact on human consciousness, mood, and even personality. The growing body of research suggests that the complex interplay between gut bacteria and the brain is far more profound than previously thought.
• Animal Consciousness and Communication: The conversation delves into research on animal consciousness, particularly the fascinating discovery of prairie dog communication, which reveals a sophisticated level of language and complex thought processes in these seemingly simple creatures. This challenges our traditional notions of animal intelligence and raises questions about the nature of consciousness.
• Evolution and Technofisio Evolution: The podcast explores the concept of technofisio evolution, a term coined by Robert Fogle, which suggests that technological advancements, particularly in healthcare and medicine, have accelerated human evolution at an unprecedented rate. The conversation examines how this rapid evolution impacts our understanding of humanity and its future.
• Culture, Language, and the Evolution of Consciousness: The conversation examines the evolution of language and its impact on our understanding of emotions, psychological states, and cultural norms. The podcast explores how changing linguistic expressions reflect shifting societal values and evolving conceptions of self and identity.

Memorable Quotes

• “Flow follows focus. So everything that triggers flow is a way of driving intention to the present moment.”
• “Flow exists sort of not on, but near the midpoint between boredom… and anxiety. “
• “…flow is an efficiency exchange. We trade and our brain has a fixed energy budget. It’s an energy hog. Right? It uses about 25 percent of your energy, yet 2% of your mass, 20 to 25 percent of your energy. It’s got a fixed energy budget. So what happens in flow is we allocate more and more energy for focus and attention, and then the brain starts shutting down noncritical structures.”
• “…the way we’ve been built from an evolutionary standpoint to optimize these things is through altered states is through changing the channel and utilizing nonordinary stages of consciousness.”
• “…every one of us is walking around with enough of an illegal substance in our system to go to jail forever. You go go buy an orange. Yeah. Right? There’s enough DMT in an orange to send you to jail for the rest of your life. “