JRE #412 – Maynard James Keenan

This podcast features a conversation between Joe Rogan and Maynard James Keenan, a multi-talented individual known for his work in music, winemaking, and acting. The conversation explores a wide range of topics, showcasing Keenan’s unique personality and diverse interests. From his unconventional approach to music and business to his deep insights on life and consciousness, the podcast offers a glimpse into the mind of a truly creative individual.

1. Puscifer’s Unique Blend of Genres:

• Puscifer, Keenan’s latest musical project, defies categorization, blending elements of country, rock, and even hints of Tool’s sound.
• Keenan embraces a “no rules” approach, prioritizing creative expression over genre constraints.
• The project involves humorous elements, with Keenan adopting various characters and even wearing wigs, further blurring the lines between music and performance art.
• Keenan draws inspiration from sources like Monty Python, demonstrating his desire to create experiences that are both entertaining and thought-provoking.

2. Maynard James Keenan: The Winemaker:

• Keenan’s commitment to winemaking extends beyond a mere hobby, as he owns a vineyard and employs a dedicated team.
• He actively participates in every stage of the process, from harvesting to pressing to inoculating, demonstrating his hands-on approach.
• Keenan views winemaking as a creative endeavor, comparing it to training in martial arts and emphasizing the importance of intuition and instinct.
• He readily seeks advice from experienced winemakers worldwide, demonstrating his willingness to learn and evolve his craft.

3. The Power of Suffering in Winemaking and Life:

• Keenan believes that grapes, like humans, benefit from a degree of “suffering” or stress, leading to a stronger, more flavorful result.
• He meticulously monitors the grapes’ needs, providing just enough nutrients while avoiding excessive “steroids.”
• This perspective reflects Keenan’s philosophy of personal growth, emphasizing the importance of pushing boundaries and embracing challenges.
• The analogy extends beyond winemaking, as Keenan emphasizes the value of pushing oneself in all aspects of life, from martial arts to creative pursuits.

4. A Musician’s Life on the Road:

• Keenan candidly describes the grueling nature of touring, highlighting the physical and mental toll it takes.
• He shares his personal experience with a blood clot caused by air travel, illustrating the potential dangers of constant travel.
• This conversation sheds light on the unseen hardships faced by musicians, often romanticized for their glamorous lifestyle.
• Keenan’s commitment to his vineyard provides him with a much-needed respite from the demanding life on the road, allowing him to connect with nature and regain his energy.

5. The Balance Between Creativity and Discipline:

• Keenan’s life is a testament to the importance of balance between creative pursuits and rigorous discipline.
• His dedication to winemaking provides him with a structured routine, ensuring his presence at the vineyard for four months each year.
• While committed to his creative projects, Keenan also prioritizes his physical well-being, regularly engaging in martial arts training, even on the road.
• This balance enables him to maintain a high level of creativity and productivity, seamlessly transitioning between various artistic endeavors.

6. Exploring the Enigmatic Energy of Sedona, Arizona:

• Keenan discusses the allure of Sedona, Arizona, known for its spiritual energy and abundance of healers and alternative practitioners.
• He contemplates the reason behind Sedona’s unique attraction, drawing parallels to other locations like Silver Lake in Los Angeles, where specific spots consistently draw crowds.
• The conversation touches on the concept of “vortexes” or points of concentrated energy, suggesting a potential link between physical locations and their energetic qualities.
• Keenan’s interest in Sedona highlights his fascination with the intersection of physical and spiritual realms, hinting at his own explorations of consciousness.

7. The Importance of Preparation and Respect for Nature:

• Keenan expresses strong disapproval for the incident where Boy Scout members tipped over a 100 million-year-old rock formation in Goblin Valley, Utah.
• He emphasizes the need for respect for nature and its ancient structures, highlighting the consequences of reckless behavior.
• The incident serves as a cautionary tale, urging individuals to approach the wilderness with preparation and a sense of responsibility.
• Keenan highlights the importance of understanding the consequences of actions and the need for preparedness, especially in extreme environments.

8. The Allure of Subsistence Shows and Living Off the Land:

• Keenan expresses a deep appreciation for “subsistence shows,” highlighting his admiration for individuals who live off the land.
• He emphasizes the importance of understanding and respecting nature, acknowledging the need for preparedness and skill when living in extreme environments.
• This interest reflects Keenan’s connection to his vineyard and his desire to live in harmony with nature.
• The conversation also touches on the importance of self-reliance and the value of traditional skills, often lost in modern society.

9. The Power of Community and Finding Your Tribe:

• Keenan acknowledges the importance of finding and cultivating strong relationships with like-minded individuals.
• He emphasizes the value of surrounding oneself with individuals who are motivated, driven, and share similar passions.
• This concept extends beyond social circles to include training partners in martial arts, demonstrating the importance of finding individuals who push and support one another.
• The conversation encourages listeners to seek out communities and individuals who inspire and challenge them, fostering growth and personal development.

10. The Impact of a Creative Life:

• Keenan discusses the potential impact of a creative life, acknowledging the inspiring nature of his own work ethic and diverse projects.
• He emphasizes the importance of focusing on the creative process rather than external validation, promoting a sense of personal responsibility for one’s work.
• The conversation acknowledges the power of shared passions, highlighting the inspiring nature of individuals who dedicate themselves to their crafts, whether in winemaking, music, or other fields.
• Keenan’s emphasis on creating with every breath encourages listeners to embrace their own creative impulses and contribute to the world around them.

11. The Transformative Power of Psychedelics and the Importance of Preparation:

• Keenan openly discusses his personal experience with psychedelics, acknowledging both their potential benefits and dangers.
• He shares his perspective on the importance of preparation, respect, and guidance when engaging with such substances.
• Keenan cautions against excessive use and emphasizes the need for integration and processing of experiences.
• The conversation encourages a responsible and mindful approach to psychedelic exploration, highlighting the importance of personal growth and integration.

12. The Dissolving of Boundaries in a Digital Age:

• Keenan expresses concerns about the erosion of privacy in a world increasingly dominated by digital technology and surveillance.
• He highlights the growing prevalence of data collection and the potential for misuse of personal information.
• The conversation explores the implications of this trend, questioning the future of personal privacy and the potential for a shift in human consciousness.
• Keenan’s perspective encourages listeners to be mindful of their digital footprint and to consider the long-term consequences of a world with increasingly blurred boundaries.

13. The Unpredictability of Nature and the Importance of Adaptability:

• Keenan discusses the unpredictable nature of natural disasters, highlighting the vulnerability of human settlements in earthquake-prone regions.
• He draws parallels to the challenges faced by individuals living in harsh environments, emphasizing the need for adaptability and resilience.
• The conversation serves as a reminder of the humbling power of nature and the importance of living in harmony with it.
• Keenan’s perspective encourages listeners to appreciate the fragility of life and to prepare for the unexpected, embracing the inherent uncertainty of existence.

14. The Transformative Power of Discipline and the Military Experience:

• Keenan discusses his own experience in the military, acknowledging its impact on his development of discipline, responsibility, and the ability to respond to challenges.
• He shares the story of a friend who transformed from a lazy and shiftless individual to a disciplined and responsible person after serving in the military.
• The conversation acknowledges the power of structured environments and the potential for personal transformation through challenging experiences.
• Keenan emphasizes the importance of finding purpose and meaning in life, whether through military service or other endeavors that foster growth and responsibility.

15. The Paradox of Progress and the Role of Innovation:

• Keenan discusses the rapid pace of technological innovation and its impact on human society.
• He raises questions about the potential consequences of unbridled progress, exploring the potential for both positive and negative outcomes.
• The conversation acknowledges the role of individual desire for novelty and material possessions in driving innovation, suggesting a complex interplay between human behavior and technological advancement.
• Keenan’s perspective encourages listeners to consider the long-term implications of technological progress and to question the trajectory of human evolution in a rapidly changing world.

16. The Absurdity of Life and the Importance of Finding Joy:

• Keenan reflects on the absurdity of life, highlighting the peculiar nature of various human activities, from opera to pool to professional sports.
• He encourages a sense of humor and self-awareness, acknowledging the inherent absurdity in many aspects of life.
• The conversation emphasizes the importance of finding joy and purpose in seemingly trivial or unconventional activities.
• Keenan’s perspective promotes a sense of appreciation for the diversity of human experience and encourages listeners to embrace their own passions and interests, no matter how unconventional they may seem.

17. The Importance of Authenticity in Creative Expression:

• Keenan discusses his approach to creative projects, emphasizing his desire for authenticity and a genuine connection with his audience.
• He embraces a “no rules” approach, valuing creative expression over rigid structures and expectations.
• Keenan’s unique approach to performance, incorporating elements of humor, character work, and improvisation, showcases his commitment to genuine self-expression.
• The conversation encourages listeners to embrace their own unique voices and to pursue creative endeavors that resonate with their authentic selves.

18. The Evolution of Tattooing as an Art Form:

• Keenan discusses the evolution of tattooing as an art form, acknowledging the significant strides made in recent decades.
• He highlights the increasing artistry and skill of tattoo artists, showcasing their ability to create intricate and meaningful works of art.
• The conversation explores the cultural significance of tattooing, contrasting the traditional Japanese approach with the evolving American perspective.
• Keenan’s own tattoo experience, including his traditional Japanese tattoo in Osaka, highlights his interest in the art form and its diverse cultural expressions.

19. The Impact of Fukushima and the Erosion of Trust:

• Keenan shares his experience in Japan after the Fukushima disaster, highlighting the growing sense of distrust towards the government’s handling of the situation.
• The conversation explores the broader implications of such events, questioning the transparency and accountability of governments in the face of major disasters.
• Keenan’s perspective encourages listeners to be critically aware of information presented by authorities and to engage in informed discourse about critical issues.
• The discussion also highlights the importance of community support and resilience in the face of adversity.

20. The Need for Humility and Adaptability in a Changing World:

• Keenan reflects on the vulnerability of human society in the face of natural disasters, using the example of houses built along the California coast.
• He emphasizes the need for humility and adaptability, acknowledging the limitations of human control over nature’s forces.
• The conversation encourages listeners to appreciate the fragility of life and to embrace the inherent uncertainty of existence.
• Keenan’s perspective reminds us that we are part of a larger interconnected system and that our actions have consequences, both for ourselves and for the world around us.

5 Memorable Quotes:

• “It’s really interesting what you’re doing. I love how you, you know, you don’t have any rules. You just do whatever the fuck you think is interesting and creative and mix the 2 of them together.” – Keenan on Puscifer’s unconventional approach to music.
• “You can pretty much read the back of a yeast packet to figure out, like, what to do to inoculate fruit. But, you know, to really actually learn how to make it, you just have to dive in.” – Keenan on the process of learning winemaking.
• “Life is too short to not create with every breath you take.” – Keenan on the importance of embracing creativity in all aspects of life.
• “Those are the people you just reach up and grab their leg and pull them down to the ground. Yeah. Let’s stay here. What happens to people?” – Keenan on the unique energy of Sedona, Arizona.
• “We gotta figure out a way to fix that. What’s the way, dude?” – Keenan on the challenges of a “soft life” and the need for resilience and adaptability.