JRE #766 - Gad Saad - cast recap

2/25/2016

Joe Rogan Podcast #766: Gad Saad—Topics and Summary

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience features Gad Saad, Professor of Marketing and Concordia University Research Chair in Evolutionary Behavioral Sciences and Darwinian Consumption. Saad, known for his outspoken views on social justice, political correctness, and evolutionary psychology, engages in a wide-ranging conversation with Rogan. The podcast explores themes of free speech, cultural relativism, religion, and the complexities of human behavior through an evolutionary lens.

Here’s a breakdown of the major topics covered in this podcast:

1. The Challenges of Free Speech in a Hyper-Connected World

The conversation kicks off with Saad recounting online harassment he faces due to his outspoken views. He highlights the unique challenges of online anonymity and its impact on social interactions. Saad argues that the internet has created a new landscape where rude and offensive behavior is readily available, without the consequences experienced in real-life interactions. This discussion delves into the psychological impact of anonymity and its potential to erode traditional social norms.

Online Anonymity: The ability to communicate anonymously online has created a new dynamic where people feel less inhibited about expressing offensive or hurtful opinions.
Erosion of Social Norms: The lack of consequences for online behavior can lead to a decline in traditional social norms and etiquette.
Evolutionary Implications: Saad suggests that online harassment is a relatively new phenomenon for which humans haven’t yet developed adequate evolutionary responses.
The Need for Boundaries: Saad argues that even though free speech is important, there are limits to what should be tolerated, especially when it comes to harassment and hate speech.

2. The Rise of Social Justice Warriors and the Limits of Activism

Saad and Rogan discuss the rise of social justice activism and its sometimes-extreme manifestations. They examine the phenomenon of “social justice warriors” and the increasingly sensitive nature of campus culture. The conversation focuses on the limitations of performative activism and its potential to stifle open dialogue and intellectual exploration.

The SJW Phenomenon: The podcast explores the motivations and behavior of individuals who identify as social justice warriors, highlighting their often-rigid stances on social issues.
The “Thought Police” and Political Correctness: The conversation delves into the concept of “safe spaces,” trigger warnings, and microaggressions, questioning their effectiveness and potential to hinder free speech.
The Limits of Activism: Rogan and Saad express skepticism about the efficacy of performative activism and suggest that it can sometimes be counterproductive, leading to further polarization and division.
The Importance of Critical Thinking: They stress the importance of critical thinking and open dialogue, arguing that these are essential for addressing complex social issues.

3. The Evolutionary Roots of Religion

Saad offers his expertise in evolutionary psychology to analyze the origins of religion. He explores two key explanations for its prevalence: adaptation and exaptation. Saad discusses how religion can provide a sense of community and purpose, enhancing group survival. He also suggests that religion might be a byproduct of other innate human psychological systems, such as our tendency toward agency detection and us-versus-them thinking.

Adaptation: Religion could have evolved as an adaptive mechanism, conferring benefits such as increased group cohesion, survival, and shared purpose.
Exaptation: Religion might have piggybacked on other existing human psychological systems, such as our tendency to perceive agency and our predisposition toward group affiliation.
The Us-Versus-Them Mentality: Religion often fosters a strong sense of in-group identity and out-group hostility, playing on our inherent social grouping tendencies.
Religion as a Source of Hope: Saad discusses how religion can provide a sense of hope and meaning in the face of uncertainty and existential anxieties.

4. The Challenges of Multiculturalism

The conversation touches on the complexities of multiculturalism, specifically its impact on Western societies. Saad argues against the idea of cultural relativism, which suggests that all cultures are equal and should be respected regardless of their practices. He emphasizes the need for a more nuanced approach that acknowledges the differences in cultural values and their consequences for individual well-being.

Cultural Relativism: Saad challenges the notion that all cultures are inherently equal, arguing that some cultures might promote greater individual well-being than others.
The “Ostrich Brigade”: Saad introduces the term “ostrich brigade” to describe individuals who refuse to acknowledge certain cultural realities or behaviors, even when they are harmful.
The Importance of Assimilation: He suggests that immigrants should be encouraged to assimilate into the core values of their new society, while still preserving their cultural heritage.
The Danger of Unscrutinized Cultural Practices: Saad argues for the need to have open discussions about potentially harmful cultural practices, such as female genital mutilation and honor killings.

5. The Role of Discipline in a World of Endless Choice

Saad and Rogan discuss the importance of discipline in a world characterized by endless information and stimulation. They suggest that the constant availability of choices, particularly in online environments, can lead to procrastination, distraction, and a feeling of being overwhelmed. The conversation underscores the need for self-control and focus to navigate the modern world effectively.

The Paradox of Choice: The podcast highlights how the abundance of choices in the modern world can create a sense of overwhelm and hinder productivity.
The Importance of Discipline: Saad emphasizes the need for discipline and focus to achieve goals and maintain a healthy balance in life.
The Allure of Distraction: They discuss how distractions, such as social media and pornography, can be alluring but ultimately counterproductive, leading to procrastination and avoidance of important tasks.
The Benefits of a Disciplined Life: Saad argues that prioritizing tasks and developing self-discipline can free up time and resources to enjoy leisure activities and pursue passions more fully.

6. The Evolutionary Roots of Sexual Dimorphism and Mating Systems

Saad dives into evolutionary explanations for sexual dimorphism, the biological differences between males and females. He explores how the degree of sexual dimorphism in a species can predict its mating system. Saad explains that species with high sexual dimorphism, where males are typically larger than females, often exhibit polygynous mating systems, where one male controls access to multiple females. He contrasts this with monogamous mating systems in species with less sexual dimorphism.

Sexual Dimorphism as a Predictor of Mating Systems: The podcast explains how the degree of physical difference between males and females in a species can influence the mating system.
Polygynous Mating Systems: Saad explains how the evolution of larger size and strength in males often leads to polygynous mating systems, where males compete for access to multiple females.
Monogamous Mating Systems: He contrasts this with monogamous mating systems, common in species where males and females are similar in size, and often involve more equal parental investment.
The Role of Kin Selection: Saad examines the concept of kin selection, explaining how even in cases of polyandry (multiple males sharing a female), it is often observed within families, driven by the desire to indirectly increase genetic fitness through relatives.

7. The Evolutionary Roots of Humor

Saad briefly discusses his research on the evolutionary roots of humor. He shares his ideas for a future study that would analyze the hormonal responses of comedians before and after stand-up performances, investigating whether their testosterone levels correlate with the success of their sets.

The Evolutionary Origins of Humor: The podcast explores the potential evolutionary benefits of humor, suggesting that it might be related to social bonding, group cohesion, and even signaling intelligence or social status.
Humor as a Form of Mass Hypnosis: Saad describes how successful stand-up comedians can create a sense of “mass hypnosis” in their audiences, causing them to laugh together and share a collective experience.
The Discomfort of Bombing: He explores the psychological discomfort that accompanies bombing on stage, highlighting how it disrupts the flow of humor and forces the audience to engage in more critical thinking.
Cultural Variations in Humor: Saad acknowledges the cultural variations in humor, noting how certain types of jokes might be more universally appreciated than others.

8. The Mismatch Between Human Evolution and the Modern World

The conversation addresses the concept of “mismatch theory,” which suggests that our modern environment presents challenges that our brains haven’t fully adapted to. Saad uses the example of social isolation in densely populated urban areas, noting how our evolutionary history of living in small groups doesn’t adequately prepare us for the challenges of navigating large, impersonal societies.

Mismatch Theory: The podcast introduces the concept of mismatch theory, explaining how our brains, evolved in a different environment, may not be fully equipped to handle the complexities of the modern world.
Social Isolation in Urban Environments: Saad argues that the high rates of depression and loneliness in urban settings are a consequence of the mismatch between our evolved social needs and the realities of city life.
The Dunbar Number: The conversation mentions Robin Dunbar’s theory that our brains are limited to maintaining meaningful relationships with approximately 150 individuals.
The Importance of Meaningful Connections: Saad highlights the importance of building meaningful relationships, suggesting that this is a key factor in promoting well-being and happiness.

9. The Evolutionary Roots of “Sneaker Fucker” Strategies

Saad introduces the concept of “sneaker fucker” strategies in the context of social justice activism. He argues that certain individuals who identify as social justice warriors might be employing a type of “sneaker fucker” strategy, essentially attempting to gain influence and status by aligning themselves with a powerful movement even though they may not fully share its values.

“Sneaker Fucker” Strategy: Saad explains the concept of sneaker fucker strategies, which involve mimicking the behavior of a dominant group to gain access to resources or mates, as observed in some animal species.
Beta Males and Social Justice: He suggests that some individuals, particularly “beta males,” might adopt social justice rhetoric to gain acceptance and attention within a movement, even if they don’t fully align with its principles.
The Desperation for Status: Saad highlights the desperation for status and social acceptance that might drive these individuals to embrace a movement for personal gain.
The Need for Authenticity: He emphasizes the importance of authenticity and genuine commitment to causes, arguing that sneaker fucker strategies ultimately undermine the integrity of movements.

10. The Role of Environmental Influences in Human Development

Saad and Rogan discuss the importance of environmental influences in shaping human behavior and development. They acknowledge that while genetics play a role, our upbringing, culture, and experiences significantly contribute to who we become.

The Nature vs. Nurture Debate: The podcast recognizes that both nature (genetics) and nurture (environment) play a role in human development.
The Power of Culture: Saad emphasizes how culture, family, and societal norms can profoundly influence individual values, behaviors, and aspirations.
The Importance of Positive Role Models: The conversation underscores the significance of surrounding oneself with positive and supportive individuals who can serve as role models and mentors.
The Importance of Opportunity: Rogan and Saad acknowledge that social and economic disadvantages can significantly impede individual development and success, underscoring the need for greater equality of opportunity.

11. The Limitations of Affirmative Action

Saad and Rogan engage in a critical discussion of affirmative action policies. While recognizing their good intentions to address racial inequality, they question their effectiveness and potential unintended consequences. They suggest that focusing on root causes of inequality, such as access to education and economic opportunity, might be more effective than trying to level the playing field through quotas and preferential treatment.

The Good Intentions of Affirmative Action: Saad acknowledges the positive intentions behind affirmative action, which aim to address historical and ongoing racial disparities in access to opportunities.
The Potential for Resentment: He raises concerns about the potential for resentment among qualified individuals who are passed over for opportunities due to affirmative action policies.
The Importance of Merit: Saad emphasizes the importance of merit and fairness in hiring and admissions decisions, suggesting that individuals should be selected based on their qualifications rather than their race or ethnicity.
Addressing Root Causes of Inequality: He argues for a more holistic approach that focuses on tackling the underlying causes of inequality, such as poverty, lack of access to quality education, and systemic discrimination.

12. The Importance of Individual Responsibility and Cultural Influence

Saad and Rogan explore the complex interplay between individual responsibility and cultural influence. While acknowledging that systemic issues play a role, they suggest that individuals have a responsibility to take ownership of their choices and actions, particularly within the context of their family and community. They caution against solely blaming external factors for personal failures.

The Importance of Individual Responsibility: Saad argues that while systemic disadvantages can impact individuals, it is crucial for individuals to take responsibility for their choices and actions.
Cultural Influence: He recognizes the power of cultural norms and values in shaping behavior, but emphasizes that individuals have the ability to challenge and transcend those patterns.
The Impact of Role Models: Saad highlights the importance of positive role models and mentors in helping individuals break free from negative cultural patterns.
The Need for Hope and Opportunity: He emphasizes the need to provide individuals from disadvantaged backgrounds with hope, resources, and opportunities to improve their lives.

13. The Need for a More Nuanced Approach to Feminism

Saad and Rogan discuss the complexities of contemporary feminism, particularly the third wave. Saad expresses concerns about the overly sensitive nature of some feminist rhetoric, suggesting that it can sometimes be counterproductive in advancing gender equality. He argues for a more nuanced approach that acknowledges the diversity of women’s experiences and the importance of respectful communication between men and women.

The Third Wave of Feminism: The conversation examines the nuances and challenges of the third wave of feminism, acknowledging its successes but also raising concerns about its sometimes-extreme manifestations.
The Importance of Respectful Communication: Saad emphasizes the importance of fostering respectful dialogue and understanding between men and women, arguing that overly sensitive and accusatory language can be counterproductive.
The Need for Nuance: He calls for a more nuanced approach to feminism that recognizes the diversity of women’s experiences and acknowledges that women are not a monolithic group.
The Danger of Stereotypes: Saad cautions against overgeneralizing about men or women, arguing that individuals should be judged on their own merits rather than based on their gender.

14. The Inherent Value of Masculinity

Saad and Rogan discuss the current cultural climate surrounding masculinity, exploring the dangers of demonizing traditional expressions of masculinity. They argue that certain aspects of masculinity, such as competition, camaraderie, and physical activity, can be healthy and beneficial, and that dismissing them as “toxic” can be detrimental to men’s well-being and societal harmony.

The Misunderstood Value of Masculinity: The podcast challenges the notion that masculinity is inherently toxic, arguing that it can be a source of strength, purpose, and social connection for men.
The Importance of Male Bonding: Saad and Rogan discuss the importance of male bonding and camaraderie, suggesting that these are essential aspects of human social life.
The Need for Balance: They argue that a more balanced approach to masculinity is needed, one that recognizes its potential benefits while also acknowledging the need for respect, empathy, and healthy expressions of power.
The Danger of Overly Sensitive Attitudes: They express concerns that overly sensitive attitudes towards masculinity can lead to men feeling alienated and misunderstood, potentially contributing to negative outcomes.

15. The Future of Politics and Governance

Saad and Rogan contemplate the future of politics and governance, expressing skepticism about the effectiveness of traditional political systems. They suggest that the increasing complexity of the modern world calls for new approaches to decision-making, potentially involving larger, more diverse groups of experts and a shift away from hierarchical structures.

The Limitations of Traditional Political Systems: The podcast discusses the inherent limitations of traditional political systems, such as two-party systems and the presidency, which might not be well-suited to addressing complex global challenges.
The Need for Collective Intelligence: They argue for a greater reliance on collective intelligence, suggesting that decisions should be made by larger groups of experts with diverse perspectives.
The Rise of Global Collaboration: Saad and Rogan discuss the increasing need for global collaboration and cooperation to tackle global problems.
The End of the King: They express skepticism about the relevance of traditional leadership models, such as the presidency, in a world increasingly characterized by interconnectedness and complex challenges.

Memorable Quotes:

“It’s a completely new thing — that we really just don’t have the mechanisms for. We just we’re not we’re not accustomed to it. We don’t really have a a long history of it.” – Saad on the evolutionary implications of online anonymity.
“You’re not allowed to come to your house. break into your house and start calling you names. And if you stop me, I accuse you of not supporting free speech. Right?” – Saad on the hypocrisy of those who complain about being blocked online.
“They’re literally eating themselves. They’re they’re they’re so ridiculous. They’ve spun around in circles, and they’re biting their own asses.” – Rogan on the self-destructive nature of some social justice activism.
“If you want to organize charitable institutions, that will legitimately help people and have people donate money and have people work towards, you know, like, these donations will actually take away from your tax is.” – Rogan on the potential for charitable organizations to address social needs.
“This idea of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is fucking ridiculous.” – Rogan on the unrealistic expectations placed on individuals from disadvantaged backgrounds.

JRE #766 – Gad Saad