JRE #822 – Chael Sonnen

This podcast features a conversation between Joe Rogan and former mixed martial artist Chael Sonnen. The episode covers a wide range of topics, including Sonnen’s experiences in the UFC, the business of fight promotion, the controversial nature of drug testing in MMA, and various opinions on the political landscape.

Provocative and controversial topics are explored, including Sonnen’s personal encounters with Brazilian fans following his critical comments about their fighters, his thoughts on the Nevada State Athletic Commission’s handling of Vitor Belfort’s TRT suspension, and his analysis of John Jones’ recent drug test issues.

The podcast dives into deep underlying themes such as the importance of a strong work ethic in the fight business, the complexities of drug testing policies and their impact on athletes’ careers, and the ethical dilemmas faced by athletes trying to balance personal choices with professional responsibilities. The conversation also touches on the intricate dynamics of fan perception and public opinion in the world of MMA.

1. Coffee and Stevia:
   • Sonnen’s preference for stevia as a natural sweetener over sugar, highlighting its health benefits and minimal impact.
   • Sonnen’s perspective on the potential commercial viability of coffee, suggesting its initial unlikeliness but ultimate widespread appeal.
   • Sonnen’s humorous theory about the marketability of coffee, comparing it to a product requiring elaborate presentation and marketing.
   • The discussion highlights the evolution of consumer preferences and the importance of marketing in influencing public perception and driving sales.
2. Dana White’s Work Ethic:
   • Sonnen praises Dana White’s relentless dedication and passion for the UFC, emphasizing the unique skillset and knowledge required for fight promotion.
   • Sonnen recounts White’s frequent late-night calls, showcasing his dedication and tireless efforts in building the UFC brand.
   • Sonnen highlights White’s deep understanding of fight promotion, emphasizing the absence of formal education or training in this specialized field.
   • The discussion emphasizes the importance of commitment, passion, and unique expertise in building a successful business, particularly in a competitive and demanding industry like MMA.
3. The Ultimate Fighter:
   • Sonnen reflects on his experiences as a coach on The Ultimate Fighter, highlighting the intense and demanding nature of the show.
   • He discusses the impact of the show’s format on the lives of the fighters, particularly regarding their separation from families and personal lives.
   • Sonnen questions the necessity of the show’s strict format, arguing for a more balanced approach that allows fighters more freedom.
   • The discussion explores the ethical implications of reality TV formats, emphasizing the potential for manipulation and exploitation while highlighting the impact on the fighters’ lives and relationships.
4. Vitor Belfort’s Lifetime Ban:
   • Sonnen argues against the Nevada State Athletic Commission’s lifetime ban on Vitor Belfort, calling it a “tyranny” and a “miscarriage of justice” due to a missed drug test.
   • Sonnen presents Belfort’s perspective, highlighting his confusion regarding the testing process and the lack of identification from the testers.
   • Sonnen emphasizes the importance of due process and the potential for abuse of power by governing bodies, particularly in the context of athlete testing.
   • The discussion underscores the complexities of drug testing policies and their impact on athlete careers, raising questions about fair treatment and the need for transparency and accountability.
5. The John Jones Drama:
   • Sonnen discusses John Jones’ recent drug test issues, highlighting his positive test for an estrogen blocker and speculating about the possible reasons behind it.
   • Sonnen critiques Jones’ handling of the situation, arguing that his public behavior at the press conference does not reflect a guilty man.
   • Sonnen points out inconsistencies in Jones’ statements regarding the use of supplements, highlighting the importance of honesty and transparency in dealing with testing violations.
   • The discussion explores the potential consequences for Jones’ career, raising questions about the effectiveness of USADA’s testing protocols and the ethics of using supplements in athletic performance.
6. The Importance of Public Image:
   • Sonnen emphasizes the importance of carefully crafting and maintaining a public image in MMA, noting the potential impact on fan perception and earning potential.
   • He reflects on his own strategy of playing the “heel” in the sport, using provocative tactics and outspoken statements to gain attention and notoriety.
   • Sonnen highlights the importance of having a clear vision and understanding of one’s brand, showcasing the power of calculated self-promotion in a competitive field.
   • The discussion delves into the psychological aspects of athlete performance, exploring the pressure to perform and the impact of public perception on an athlete’s career.
7. Daniel Cormier’s Public Image:
   • Sonnen analyzes Daniel Cormier’s public image, noting the tension between his role as the “good guy” of MMA and the negative reactions he often receives from fans.
   • Sonnen criticizes Cormier’s attempts to explain himself to the crowd, arguing that it weakens his position and plays into the hands of his critics.
   • Sonnen suggests that Cormier’s best approach is to embrace his “heel” persona and avoid seeking approval from the crowd.
   • The discussion highlights the challenges faced by athletes trying to balance personal values with the demands of public perception and fan expectations, exploring the tension between authentic self-expression and the need to satisfy a demanding audience.
8. The John Jones/Rumble Johnson Matchup:
   • Sonnen discusses the missed opportunity of a matchup between John Jones and Rumble Johnson, arguing that it would have been an epic and highly anticipated fight.
   • Sonnen analyzes the fighting styles of both fighters, highlighting Johnson’s explosive power and Jones’ elusive technique.
   • Sonnen reflects on the potential for upsets in MMA, considering the impact of a potential knockout of Jones by Johnson.
   • The discussion explores the intricacies of matchmaking in MMA, highlighting the factors that influence the scheduling of fights and the potential for missed opportunities due to unforeseen circumstances.
9. The Role of Mental Health:
   • Sonnen raises concerns about the role of mental health issues in gun violence, arguing that it is a significant factor that is often overlooked in the debate.
   • He criticizes the tendency to focus solely on the availability of guns as the primary cause, advocating for a broader discussion that includes the impact of mental health on violent behavior.
   • Sonnen emphasizes the need for a more nuanced and comprehensive approach to addressing gun violence, recognizing the complex interplay of social, psychological, and environmental factors.
   • The discussion highlights the importance of addressing mental health concerns in society, recognizing their potential impact on individual behavior and societal well-being.
10. The Politics of Gun Control:
    • Sonnen discusses the political debate surrounding gun control, criticizing the entrenched positions of both sides and advocating for a more balanced approach.
    • He argues against the effectiveness of outright bans, recognizing the challenges of implementing such policies in a large and diverse country like the United States.
    • Sonnen emphasizes the need for stricter regulations and background checks, drawing parallels to the licensing requirements for driving a car.
    • The discussion underscores the complexities of gun control policy, highlighting the need for a nuanced approach that balances individual rights with public safety.
11. The 2nd Amendment:
    • Sonnen examines the relevance of the Second Amendment in contemporary society, arguing that it has outgrown its original intent and requires reinterpretation in the context of modern firearms and social challenges.
    • He criticizes the blind adherence to the constitution and the bill of rights, advocating for a more flexible approach to interpreting these documents in a rapidly evolving world.
    • Sonnen emphasizes the need for a critical reevaluation of historical values and principles in light of contemporary issues, urging for a more nuanced and adaptable approach to governance.
    • The discussion explores the complexities of interpreting historical documents in a modern context, recognizing the need for a balance between tradition and progress.
12. Political Corruption and Power:
    • Sonnen discusses the issue of political corruption, citing examples of potential wrongdoing by the Clinton campaign and the FBI’s handling of the investigation.
    • He expresses concern about the double standards that appear to exist in the application of laws, questioning the potential for abuse of power by those in positions of authority.
    • Sonnen argues that the perception of unequal treatment under the law undermines public trust in institutions and creates a climate of cynicism.
    • The discussion highlights the importance of ethical conduct and accountability in government, emphasizing the need for transparency, fair treatment, and equal application of the law.
13. Donald Trump’s Political Strategy:
    • Sonnen analyzes Donald Trump’s political strategy, highlighting his use of provocative statements and unconventional tactics to garner media attention and public engagement.
    • He compares Trump’s campaign to the promotional strategies used in professional wrestling, emphasizing his ability to evoke emotion and manipulate public perception.
    • Sonnen believes that Trump’s willingness to embrace controversy and his calculated approach to media manipulation have made him a highly effective candidate.
    • The discussion explores the changing landscape of political campaigning in the age of social media, recognizing the power of personality, image, and media manipulation in shaping public opinion.
14. Hillary Clinton’s Presidential Campaign:
    • Sonnen discusses Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, highlighting the potential impact of the FBI investigation on her chances of winning the election.
    • He analyzes the challenges she faces in overcoming public perceptions of corruption and dishonesty, recognizing the impact of scandals and controversies on her image.
    • Sonnen speculates about Clinton’s potential running mate, suggesting that she might choose Elizabeth Warren, despite the potential backlash from voters.
    • The discussion explores the dynamics of gender politics and the challenges faced by female candidates in seeking high office, recognizing the cultural and social barriers that still exist.
15. The Art of War:
    • Sonnen draws parallels between the art of war and the strategies used by political leaders, highlighting the importance of strategic thinking and manipulation in achieving political goals.
    • He argues that the most effective leaders often avoid direct conflict, using their power and influence to achieve their objectives without resorting to violence.
    • Sonnen cites examples of political leaders like Vladimir Putin who have used intimidation and calculated tactics to achieve their goals.
    • The discussion explores the power dynamics of leadership, recognizing the importance of strategy, negotiation, and the ability to influence others without resorting to force.
16. Submission Underground:
    • Sonnen promotes his upcoming Submission Underground event, highlighting its unique rules and the exciting nature of submission grappling.
    • He discusses the importance of standardized rules in the sport, advocating for a unified approach that creates a level playing field for athletes.
    • Sonnen emphasizes the appeal of submission grappling as a spectator sport, noting its beauty, dynamism, and the inherent drama of watching athletes battle for a submission.
    • The discussion explores the evolution of grappling events, highlighting the importance of innovation and rule changes in driving excitement and attracting fans.
17. Roy Jones Jr.’s MMA Career:
    • Sonnen discusses Roy Jones Jr.’s foray into MMA, expressing his concern about the potential for Jones to sustain injuries due to his age and the inherent risks of the sport.
    • He acknowledges Jones’ skills as a commentator but believes that his fighting days are behind him.
    • Sonnen highlights the bittersweet nature of seeing a legendary athlete past their prime, recognizing the physical toll that combat sports can take.
    • The discussion explores the challenges faced by aging athletes in dealing with physical decline and the need to transition into new roles.

Memorable Quotes:

• “I don’t like it. I could say, hey. I don’t know about the same sex. We don’t even sell it. So I’m a fan of it.” – Sonnen jokingly discusses his preference for stevia, highlighting its natural properties and contrasting it with artificial sweeteners.
• “You either know it or you don’t. Yeah. It’s it’s difficult, and it requires all day. Like, Dan is working all day.” – Sonnen praises Dana White’s work ethic and dedication to the UFC, emphasizing the unique knowledge and skills required for fight promotion.
• “They don’t even get to call home. One guy had the birth of his first child. He did not get to call and and check on his wife.” – Sonnen recounts the intense nature of The Ultimate Fighter, highlighting the show’s impact on the fighters’ personal lives and relationships.
• “They they they they’re openly showing them. that you don’t give a fuck about them. You don’t care about their career. You don’t care that it’s the only way they have to make a living.” – Sonnen criticizes the Nevada State Athletic Commission’s lifetime ban on Vitor Belfort, highlighting the potential for abuse of power and the negative impact on athletes’ careers.
• “The best general never fires a shot. Donald Trump isn’t planning to go and whip people. He’s planning to make people think he will whip them.” – Sonnen analyzes Donald Trump’s political strategy, highlighting his use of intimidation and calculated tactics to influence public opinion.